Michael Moore is a fat son of a bitch who won't do any real interviews with anyone who doesn't see his point. Half truths and bullshit is all he has to say. I wish he would try being a cop for a little while. They shoot people because they don't comply. Michael Moore a dick face.
There aren't any interviews in this documentary, so that's a moot point for commenting on this video.
He did a street stunt to bring attention to a problem that needs attention brought to it. Moore picks topics that the mass media usually glosses over or doesn't present in a way he finds satisfactory, then brings his own style of media attention to it.
I'm not sure what you guys are claiming he's lied about here-- these incidents really did happen, and whether they were racist or not, it's not very reassuring to know people with spatulas are being shot dead. It's something that needs attention, and that's what the aim of this documentary was.
Michael Moore is a complete idiot. Talented documentary created, but an idiot. Has he ever been in a violent situation or had to make a determination between life and death... I doubt it, maybe between a twinky and hostess fruit pie. What dork!!
he has a point in must of his documentaries, but his approach is just ridiculously obnoxious, unnecessary, and rude. the average nyc cop is your average normal, hardworking good man or woman. moore just pisses me off and needs someone to knock some sense into him. i have absolutely no respect for that man whatsoever.
While michael moore does present an interesting and valid point, does he make the point of how many police officers are shot daily? As far as getting shot goes, it seems that police officers are the ones getting discriminated against, simply because its their life on the line. Moore is a complete, yet talented moron.
And this is why (even though I'm a fan) I find it difficult but into his message here. He's a decent man who hate it when people stereotype others, or hates anyone who paints others with one, huge brush....and yet....here, he does the very same thing he despises to police officers.
Not nice. And not fair.
But as far as the majority of his work goes? I usually tend to agree with it, and see his point.
Good point, he could offer statistics on how many cops are shot, however the statistic would have to be how many cops are shot with guns drawn vs. how man cops are shot before ever pulling a gun. I'll go ahead and assume the rate of cops shot on duty with spatulas is near zero, but I haven't researched that.
Cops also consciously know the inherent dangers of their career choice. Is it okay to shoot cops? No, of course not, but police by nature deal with dangerous people and situations, and their chances of being shot are (or should be, I don't have numbers), by nature, significantly higher than people carrying spatulas.
He has truthful and valid points but he beats them like a dead horse. I used to like him until I realized that he is a total asshole. The in-your-face documentary style just pisses me off.
I would argue that anyone wanting to raise awareness has to be in your face. There are too many people who want to deny reality and tell themselves everything is fine.
worldcitizen's logic is almost impeccable.....it is the same logic that osama bin laden uses and justifies based on his view that Americans just don't understand his reality.....michael moore has his own reality, but it is very different than the reality that a reasoned person would see
Wow rishin! Way to ignore the issue, and you managed to evoke the name of Osama Bin Laden who has absolutly nothing to do with this discussion. If you are going to challenge someone you will need to do more than dust off canned bait words.
Did it ever occur to you, that if the rest of the mainstream American media adopted the same "in-your-face approach" (as you call it), asking the tough questions, getting the right answers, digging and always investigating and never letting up an inch and basically just DID THEIR FUCKING JOBS ( much like Mr. Moore), that maybe Georgie-Boy, Rummy and DICK wouldn't have had the fucking BALLS to pull off the shit they've done so far? And that there wouldn't be 3600 dead American kids right now?
The answer, of course, is:
No.
As it stands, Keith Olbermann is the only one who even REMOTELY comes close to being what I would call a "responsible" reporter, who does his job.
And why?
BECAUSE OF THE IN-YOUR-FACE-LETS-ASK-THE-REALLY-HARD-QUESTIONS APPROACH!!
It may piss you off, but you watched it, you've heard of Michael Moore, and he continues to be successful in bringing attention to the topics he chooses to document.
You don't have to like a documentarian to admit he is good at what he does. He's good at what he does because he does it and doesn't namby-pamby around like many news networks. He goes out and reports things that need to be reported.
Can he be just as effective and also more polite? Perhaps, but that might make him a less interesting character.
actually... most police offers are NOT just hard working regular americans. A lot of them are racist ass-holes. I've experienced it first hand. I watched a good friend of mine get turned into a total jerk by the LAPD academy. I've never heard such crap out of someone's mouth as after he graduated.
It's true the Michael Moore's style is less than desirable. But, obviously the regular channels of getting a point across are either blocked or not working because the police force is not changing for the better. They are getting worse.
And richshin... shuttup. Michael Moore is not being a terrorist and killing people. He's using a loud speaker and obnoxious free speech methods to get his point across. The people who are killing innocent citizens are the cops.
I've heard a lot of people say or comment that Moore is loose with the facts and lies a lot. I would really like to see some proof of that. Does anyone have any good links to show this? I'm interested to know if in fact he does stretch the truth, or if he just sensationalizes it.
well said. Every single thing Moore comes out with, someone has to say that he stretches the truth or makes up facts- but not once have I seen anyone offer up real evidence to the prove it. Actually, in terms of stretching the truth, I think that doesn't matter half as much as some truth being exposed to begin with. Moore always has a specific point he wants to get across. And he does- whether or not you make like they in-your-face tactic he employs for doing so doesn't matter.
Michael Moore, is a pathetic person. There are reasons why these questions aren't answered, the same reasons why people don't change. He is fighting a losing battle with a society that doesnt' care. Anyone can say, hey that right he makes a good point. But, in fact, he makes no point, because there is no point, no one wants to hear it.
Couldn't agree with you more -- gun laws are definitely America's biggest problem. Cities like New York (where this is happening) would be vastly safer if they got rid of the ridiculous laws against gun ownership that they have. Look at the cities and states with the most draconian anti-gun legislation. They have the worst problems with crimes and murders. This is because criminals have no concern about approaching a victim. They know that they are unarmed.
And the FBI statistics prove this to be true. It is shown that guns are used by private citizens twice as often to prevent crimes as they are used to perpetrate them. And that 2:1 statistic is probably even higher, since there are probably a lot of crimes prevented with guns where the citizen never reports the case to the police, since they don't want to be harassed by socialist prosecutors. The answer is more guns, not fewer.
But isn't there a bigger issue here? It is clear that Michael Moore is retarded. That is, suffering from severe mental defect. But the fact is, even a blind pig will root up an acorn every once in a while. I agree with the notion that these incidents are tragedies. In fact, every conservative in this country will agree with that. But what Michael Moore doesn't want to acknowledge is the FACT that blacks commit a disproportionate percentage of the gun homicides in New York. Isn't this important to note? Wouldn't the black community be well served to be overly cautious when faced with a half-dozen police? He was trying to make a joke out of the orange wallets and trash bag decoys and flailing mannequin arm backpacks, but he actually is onto something. It is up to individuals in the black community to make sure that police officers don't make honest mistakes. To disagree is like sitting on the railroad tracks with the train bearing down on you and saying that you're not going to move because the train shouldn't be on that track. It doesn't matter if you are right or not -- you're going to be dead. As long as our police officers are humans, those humans are going to make mistakes. It's up to individuals in the black community to make sure that they aren't the victims of those mistakes.
So shouldn't Michael Moore be talking to black community leaders to make changes where the real problem lies? Shouldn't he try to change the attitudes of the black community? If I had a problem with crime in my neighborhood, I would want MORE cops there, not fewer. Why does the left think it should be different for black neighborhoods? Why doesn't Michael Moore talk to black community leaders so they can quit pointing the finger of blame to anywhere else in the world besides the black community? Why do black leaders always seem to find a way to blame others for their own problems?
The answer to those questions is because not one of them is serious about growing up and addressing the problems. Michael Moore feeds into the white liberal guilt of a certain segment of our population. White people get to feel good about their self-flagellation and Michael Moore gets rich.
Call me racist if you want, but the black community has a whole host of problems in this country. Racist cops could well be one of them, but there isn't enough racism on the police force to keep down 13% of our population. The problems of the black community are theirs and theirs alone and it is up to them to solve them. Michael Moore wants to grandstand and rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic. The ship is going down, but nobody is addressing the real problems.
At some point, someone has to recognize the fact that the black community is in serious trouble. And the problems aren't coming from anywhere but from within. If we waved a magic wand and ended all police shootings tomorrow, it would change nothing about the problems in the black community. But Michael Moore doesn't care about this. There's no money in it.
I agree to your opinion about Moore. Yes, he "over-commercializes" social criticism and presents it far too funny for having any real effects. But I disagree in respect of the gun laws. Yes, at the moment you might be better off in NY by carrying a gun fort self defense. But take a look at other countries with more restrictive - and actually effective - laws: Police in such such countries can act much less aggressive than in the US. As far as racism is concerned: Yes this is also a major flaw of the US society. And yes, it is kept alive by all ethnic groups.
they really aren't documentaries, despite having valid facts, they should be put in the categories of mockumentaries due to the fact of all the bullshit sensationalism moore puts into his films.
sure some of its kind of funny but it doesn't exactly fit in as 'educational' at all.
If YOU were a police officer, I'd be making sure you were nowhere NEAR any populated areas, and were writing parking tickets in Aching Asshole, Alaska.
Worldcitizen and bigbadwolf are quite correct (and logical) in their assessments; Throbstick adds nothing to any threads, and is around to be insulted----nothing more; therefore, I shall happily oblige him: STFU dummy, and go back to grade school.
This video clip is from an episode of a TV series Moore had several years ago, called "The Awful Truth". Funny though, in this same TV series, he had an episode that dealt with a man whos insurance company wouldn't approve the cost of a pancreas transplant, even though he was going to DIE if he didn't get it. In the end, Moore took on this guys HMO, bitch-slapped them, and got them to reverse their decision. The guy's now alive precisely because of Michael Moore. He saved a human beings LIFE. This, of course, lead to the birth of his latest documentary, "SICKO". And some folks here STILL have nothing better to do, except put down the man. Although I don't necessarily agree with everything Moore says or how he says it, especially in this clip (like painting all cops with the same brush, labelling them as basically trigger-happy), the fact remains is that NO ONE has sued him, or brought any kind of litigation against him whatsoever as far as the CONTENT of his documentaries go. Zip. Zilch. Nada. And why is that? Well, gee, it must be because he's dealing in FACTS. And what's the response of some of the fucking deadheads on this thread towards his work? : "go eat a hot dog"; "he's a liar!"; "he's sensationalistic!"; "complete idiot", and blah-blah-blah-fucking-blah.
Yeah, okay. He wins an Oscar, as well as a Palme D'or at the Cannes film festival for two separate documentaries, and all some people here have to say is "go eat a hot dog"? Well, all that tells me is that Mr. Moore has hit an accurate nerve, and some folks are either just too dumb, or just too oblivious to get what he's saying as far as the big picture goes. I figure they're the ones who mostly rely on Fox News for their view of the world.
Have you seen his new DOCUMENTARY yet? "SICKO"? Well, I have. And if most people have any brains, they're gonna come out of that theater pissed right off, and others will be (if they have ANY brains) start at least questioning what's right and what's wrong with everything around them. Suffice to say, this documentary has made fools out of a few nutjobs on another thread here about health care in the U.S., i.e. Throbstick, Joe Friday, etc.
So, in short, some of you better do your homework before you shoot your mouths off.
You would do well to follow your own advice on doing homework. I didn't realized that you had gone back and put so much more crap up on the hospital site. I went ahead and responded to your uninformed encopresis.
Yeah it's all a racist conspiracy, we all know no white person has ever been accidentally shot when an officer under stress mistook something in his hand for a gun. That could never ever happen. And its not like a police officer has ever been killed because he hesitated to fire, not sure if he saw a gun or not. Next you crazy right-wingers will be telling me police work is really hard or dangerous. Don't you understand the police are the enemy!
^sarcasm^
Hey glumbert, whats with all the political crap lately, I visit the site to be entertained.
I see that stupid frickin canuck is back with his verbose BS. Do you have a life or do you watch everything on TV?? Live don't watch. Seems very convenient canuck that you spout stats, ratios, averages, etc. most of the time, but when it suits you, you choose ONE instance and extrapolate generalities from it (the Moore HMO story). Underlines the fact that your arguments may well be fact-based, but you only choose to present the covenient facts. You cannot be trusted. You should be gutted like a fish.
Anything that Moore does, he does for his own glory and publicity.
Just go back and bury your head up your ass, fucktard.
Just admit that you know FUCK-ALL about anything, ya don't have a real fuckin' job and all you know how to do is act like a retarded little kid. You're the most clueless dumb fuck I've see seen or READ ANYWHERE.
Facts, sport.
FACTS.
So until you got any FACTS to back up what you say....well, golly-gee, you can just kiss my Royal Canuck Ass.
Moore tends to blow things up in a comical fashion, leading to a large variation of responses to his work. However, his method of portrayal aside, there is a bit of a problem with police officers mistaking citizens with guns. It's not just when they're black people either. And maybe it's not just the police officer's fault; there could be something wrong with when and how people pull items from their pockets or hold them as they pass on by. Whatever the problem is, it's in there somewhere, and it won't go away by itself. Moore just ends up directing your attention to the issue by focusing it around blacks or other minority groups so he can just throw in racism in there. The problem exists outside of that as well... And recognizing that is far more important.
Facts canuck?? Let's see - since you know nothing about my job, that would be your OPINION, not a "FACT SPORT". The FACT that you don't know the difference is the underlying flaw in everything you write. You do nothing but resort to retard, fucktard, dumb fuck, etc. , etc.. Boring, boring.
You don't post until later in a thread so that you can go look up the subject on the internet and then spout the work of others. Nothing original in anyhting you write. You're an insecure plagirist and that's being polite.
2. You have a solid history of being unable to offer any rational counter-point to anything said or written because you're dumb as a plank. FACT.
3. Ummm...actually...I think you'd be surprised how little I rely in the "net" to get any information; you'd be amazed at what a good old fashioned book can teach you (unless it had pictures and came with its own big, black marker it wouldn't do YOU any good, though). FACT.
4. Plagiarism?? Yeah, whatever. Next.
5. I'm right 99.999999887% of the time; YOU are wrong 100% of the time. FACT.
6. Yes, I do jump later into a thread and then comment; it's called "assessing what's written, then adding to the debate". See how simple that is? In YOUR case, the formula is brutally elementary: STFU, and go take a remedial course. FACT.
7. You're dumb. FACT.
Consider your lesson concluded for today. Tommorrow, I'll help you work on your ABC's.
Just imagine a situation in which a police officer could shoot a man for holding a wallet:
The police tell a man to freeze and put his hands in the air and for some reason (maybe he's scared and wants to show them who he is) he reaches into his back pocket to get his wallet out. The police don't know what he has back there, only that he is not putting his hands in the air as instructed, but actually reaching for something. The police in this case are given no choice but to shoot; if they do not, then they may be shot.
This is a hypothetical situation but I don't think it is too far fetched. After the fact, the police would realize that it was a wallet the man was reaching for, the information would get out that he was killed because of his wallet, and then the media runs with it.
This is exactly the kind of situation that Moore could be referring to but instead uses phrases that lead the viewer to imagine a man walking down the street with a wallet in his hand and suddenly being fired upon.
I wish people would understand that it is not only the government that twists facts to gain support but also the people who take it upon themselves to expose them.
"You should only believe half of what you see, and none of which you hear."
Here, Here! I'm with "icecream". You pegged it on the head.
I have been in urban combat situations on a large number of occasions. When you are faced with danger that does not readily identify itself as being dangerous and looks like every other average citizen in the population, you are forced to make split second decisions based upon peoples ACTIONS. This is not easy and can lead to very unfortunate, if not tragic misunderstandings.
When I first got to the war zone we were told that if you perceive a threat you should fire your weapon. This naturally led to an overly liberal use of deadly force in not so deadly situations.
As time went on we were instructed not to fire unless we could positively identify a threat. This made more sense I think, because it did cut down significantly on the incidents of soldiers firing on people who were holding a stick or a can of cola while allowing them the liberty of protecting themselves when they truly believed their lives to be in danger. The problem is that it did not stop there.
Public outrage over "innocent" lives being lost led to us being instructed not to fire unless we had been already fired upon. Hmmmm.....isn't it a bit late to be firing your weapon if the enemy has already taken you out? Literally, if you were to see a man leveling his weapon at you, you were not to fire unless he fired first. This was the official order given from the men in command. Of course we did not comply with such nonsense, as this would have more likely lead to our own losses as opposed to protecting the innocent.
The point here is that when you are in such a situation where your life is in probable or even potential danger, you are forced to make decisions in seconds (or less) that may have serious ramifications. No officer, soldier, security guard, etc. wants to kill the innocent. In fact, to do so is not only a black mark on their career, but a horrible memory that they have to live with for the rest of their life. This is something most all of us avoid like the plague. When asked of our biggest fear in combat, most of my teammates would reply "to kill an innocent civilian, especially a child". To die is a chance these men and women know they are taking when they sign up for these jobs. They face it every day. I feel especially bad for the cops in our country, who are faced with the possibility of being killed by the very people they are charged with protecting. That sucks!
Bottom line? If a cop yells "FREEZE" then freeze damn it, freeze. It is essential that they have the opportunity to find out that you are not a threat before you go trying to show them what is in your damn pockets.
What was your specific ROE in the end, and what constituted its re-evaluation? I'm asking because I think it's pertinent to Moore's fundemental point in this clip.
Just fulfilling my world-responsibility by keeping "asshole Americans" like yourself in check (and maybe even leaving you a little more educated in the process).
Arrogant? Why, yes I am. Thank you. I suppose to someone like yourself who never got past ninth grade, I guess I would seem arrogant.
If you used your puny brain for a moment, you'd realize that barnsleyfc is perhaps Barnsley FC which is perhaps a reference to Barnsley Football Club which would perhaps indicate that I'm from the UK which would perhaps mean that I'm not american. Yet again, you jump to erroneous conclusions prematurely. Twat.
Ohhhhhh, well then, assuming you're telling the truth, then I guess you got me on that one. Totally. Although, seeing as how I'm not the one who hides behind the obscure name of a wanker sports team to disguise my nationality, I'd say that only one of us is the more forthright of the two.
Kudos to you.
Having said that, I find it supremely ironic, that you feel the need to label me as "arrogant", considering that you stuffed-shirts have done nothing but build up an entire society on a class-system for the past several centuries, based on....WAIT FOR IT!!......arrogance. As a result, many of you walk around with this stupid, pompous air of entitlement. Just ask the Aussies how they feel about ya; or even the South Africans. Plus, you had the stupidity to get sucked into Georgie-Boys war. Way to go.
Yes, thank you for clarifying who and what YOU are.
The Americans were at least 100% CORRECT to get rid of your ilk when they did.
You disgust me, you cowardly, hypocritical kipper-eater.
I hope if Jack ever makes a comeback, you live in dead-center of the Whitechapel district.
Everyone here is missing the point. All those wallets that were exchanged were obviously stolen. And I hope I don't have to point out why its so obvious.
This "story" might actually have some credibility if it did not have M. SchMoore's name on it, the king of no truth, half truths, and distortions. So I guess we should just pull all the cops from the streets and let the thugs have full run. Nice. Ever think of blaming the criminals for these problems? Naaahhh, that would be far too politically incorrect, now wouldn't it?
I agree with adon, icecreamsocialist, and fido139. The issue is that there is too much legislation on the cops and what they can and can't do. All you have to do is think about what the most common way people at your work die is and then look at the cops job again. If you didn't do anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about. Think about why the person is being stopped by the cops to begin with? Not for being a good samaritan that's for sure! If I got pulled over for speeding and while the cop was walking up to my truck I got out of the truck and started to pull my wallet out I should be shot for being so dumb. The people being shot are those people who as kids never listened just because . . . and never did what they were told just because . . . if you think your precious "rights" will let you do whatever you want think again!
And canuck1963, I forget, when was it that you got your independence? I know ours was won by the 13 colonies in the late 1700s. If you want facts about Michael Moore being wrong or just plane taking things out of context as most people do to sell stuff or get famous, go rent fahrenhype 911. Now pay attention, it is fahrenHYPE 911 not fahrenheit!!! One thing some people have to realize is that you are not always right in life and sometimes it is better to admit defeat rather than dig deeper and continue looking dumber. All the foul language used by canuck describes his character very quick. Sometimes I'm sorry I was wrong, or you are right I am wrong are the hardest things to say but the more you humble yourself the more you grow mentally and socially. As you can see, you happen to be a social outcast on here . . . . fighting with everyone that says something different than your OPINION!
Thank you for your lesson on morality and social graces. I'll forgive the fact that you didn't read my other many postings, to see that two things are evident: I don't suffer outright stupidity or ignorance or fools lightly; and if you have a VALID argument to prove me wrong...I'll actually be happy about it. But please...don't come to me in , you know, the USUAL way....i.e....wrapped in the flag, tossing labels like "socialistic" or "left-winger" at me, or what-have-you; and YOU, like a certain other blissfully ignorant twat on these threads, failed to see my post made already about "Farenhype 911"; I shall do YOU the same courtesy, and help you out, by posting that thread:
"However, this information that was featured in a counter-documentary to Farenheit 911, called "Farenhype 911". I watched that as well, and first thing I thought was "Wow. There's no solid info here. It's just a...smear piece. That's all. Whereas Moore showed all kinds of written/visual evidence, all this flick did was feature people who were not identified by name; a smug, self-righteous narration by Ron Silverman, and absolutely NO satirical wit. In short, this flick (along from what I've seen about your link so far....stay tuned) was nothing more than the usual "Fox News"-type attack. Nothing more. It kind of reminds of the Fox Networks attempt to counter the brilliance of Jon Stewarts "Daily Show", with something called "The Half-Hour News Hour". Suffice to say, it's absolutely lame and pitiful. Embarrassing to watch, even. Anyways, I go back to what I've said before...NO form of legal action has EVER been brought against Moore for anything, by way of libel, slander or even outright false reporting. A few bellyachers about copyrights and use of names...that's about it. Is that the best the RIGHT has got? C'mon."
Happy?
Now instead of coming to me, as if you're bloodied and wounded and crawling out of Valley Forge.....come to me with reasonable arguments, ok? And not with with a lot of ill-founded, misguided, nationalistic bullshit, ok?
And for the record, my brilliantly ignorant country-bumpkin, your we got our independence in 1867 (we call it "Confederation"); plus you wouldn't have a country right now, if France didn't covertly supply you your arms and resources. I'm happy ya managed it, and congrats.
But you didn't by any stretch DO IT ALONE.
The United States has NEVER accomplished ANYTHING on its own; rather it has always been, and always shall be, a member of the same world stage as every other nation. Is it a great nation in many ways? Of course. But it has NEVER "rogue" nation, playing in a one-man band. The first time She tried it, it didn't work out. It was called "Vietnam". Comprendo?
So please...get off the this stupid high-horse, and get some sense about you....ok?
P.S. Paul Revere was a Canadian. Stick THAT in your collectively ignorant pipe, and smoke it.
The Canada Act 1982 is an Act of Parliament passed by the British Parliament that severed virtually all remaining constitutional and legislative ties between the United Kingdom and Canada. It contains the text of the Constitution Act, 1982 of Canada in Schedule B.
You were given your independence slowly in bits and pieces over the last 200 years. Talk about lame! Nothing I say or anyone else that has a different opinion other than yours says will make a dent in your tiny brain I realize that now! You feel very strongly about one thing, Arguing!! I think it is good to have a strong opinion on things and I respect that but being ignorant and calling people childish names only makes yourself look bad. What? Do you not think that I could tear into you with insults and facts that would defame your pitiful country to the size of a mustard seed?! What good does that do? NOTHING! I like the interview with Michael Moore and CNN and the fact that he does intensive research and criticizes the media for bad and untruthful news is great! I think that defaming the president that is in office is wrong and shows a lack of respect for one's country unless there is a valid point at hand. Bill Clinton's scandal in the oval office was basically given a slap on the wrist but if that would of been George W. or any other republican the Democrats would've tried to send him to jail for life! Double standards . . .
It is very easy for the people outside of the military to sit back and criticize the government for keeping our military overseas but what they don't realize is that the fight would be over here if it weren't for them fighting for us over there. Our military has more training deaths per year than the total that have been killed in this war each year. What people need to understand is that the military is not just a free ride to college. You sign up with the job title of going to war. Would it be nice to just sit back and train on home turf everyday yes (ex: France), but that's not reality!
Healthcare is another issue that will get beaten up until the end of time. I always say "you get what you pay for!" I treat the government run healthcare idea like the UNION . . . it's unfair to the people that work their buts off to have better!! Giving the same healthcare benefits to someone that makes $150,000 a year that went to college and spent the time preparing for life and to someone that is addicted to cocaine and has 5 kids with 5 different dads and whom doesn't work for a living but collects welfare is not right!! Anyone see my point!! I know you are going to say but at least give the option for it. No! Because whether I take it or not my tax dollars are going to go there. And another thing, why do you think people fly in from all over the world to the U.S. hospitals for healthcare and special services? I'll tell you why. Because our doctors get paid good money depending on their performance and track record. If there is no incentive to be a good doctor why hurry patients into surgery and why do a good job? No this is not the case 100% of the time just 99%. Some things to think about . . . I think the majority of people on here have valid points and good debates, we just need to figure out some common ground because we are the world now and we cannot criticize unless we are helping to change what we are criticizing!
Australia... you know that sattalite outpost of USA is following the advice of colonising power and going down the privitising rute. Result: One congested, overlaoded, fcuked up public health system; One empty privie system, ready for overseas patients to come and recive top notch health care while our indiginous communities live in third world (or worse) conditions!!!
canuck1963: This country that you talk so poorly about is the same one that keeps all the bullies in check! Everytime someone needs help it is the United States of Ameica that goes to the rescue! Not the Canucks that's for sure. I am glad you think that sending a couple thousand of your countrymen to Afghanistan weighs in on the same level as what we have been doing all along just as you think you have independence from the UK.
It's like your money being worth as much as ours!? At least the mexicans understand that the peso and npeso isn't worth shit but you canucks always try to screw with us when we spend our money in your "country!"
I always exchange at the border before I come over but always try not to get too much of that stuff because nobody wants it when I come back. lol
Sorry, being a little harsh on ya but it was too hard to resist. You guys make it too easy!! "A"
One more thing before I leave for the day . . . Paul Revere was born in Boston, Massachusetts and died in Boston, Massachusetts. He was not Canadian!!! LOL
Got me on the Paul Revere-thingy. Apologies. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I have no problem saying so (although, in my own defence, I heard that story years ago from somewhere, and never bothered to check it out).
However, as to your other comments, you had me actually reading intently, and then you lost me again when you fell back into fluttering the flag and shooting off your fireworks. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Famous words. True words. Your homework is to find out who said it. Anyways, onto your other points:
1. Canada reptriated its constitution in 1982, under then-Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau. All it did was entrench the current system of government as being a constitutional monarchy, with a parliamentary democracy. We still have a Governor-General, who acts as the Queens representative in Canada; and each of the ten provinces has a Lieutenant-Governor, who acts as the Queens representative in each of the said provinces. Additionally, the Queen remains as Head-Of-State. Although the years, the monarchy has become more of a "figurehead" than anything else, but the Governor-General STILL may dissolve parliament if invited to do so, or under exceptional circumstances. We have not "severed" our ties completely; rather, we prefer to retain SOME of them, for fear of becoming an outright republic. No interest in that. We are still a sovereign nation, and make our own day-to-day decisions. But please don't act like you know about ANYTHING across the the 49th parallel, that you don't get from "wikipedia", or Fox News.
2. When you say that we got our independence slowly over the last 200, years, you're partially correct. Bottom line is...we got it. However, we just chose to obtain through diplomacy and negotiation; it was a business deal. The U.S., on the other hand, decided that a bloody revolution was the way to go. (Not a criticism, btw). If that's how you wanted to do it, then all the power to you. But like I said, the country that was founded THEN....is NOT the same country that exisits now. The Arabs own about 7-10% of your economy; if they call in their markers, you've pretty well had it. Why successive Aministrations let it come to that, is a mystery to me (especially considering Canada is the BIGGEST oil supplier to the U.S.---that means Numero Uno). If you call THAT "independence"....well okay fine then.
3. Your comments on the health care debate: agreed. We could spend a million years hashing this out, and you'll say "STFU!! OURS IS BETTER!!"; I'll say "STFU!! OURS IS BETTER!". In the end, all we'll have is a couple of sore throats, and maybe a grudge or two thrown in.
4. As for your views about the President: let me see if I get this (and please, explain it to me): if whoever is the President of The United States, and this person CLEARLY has shown to be incompetent, corrupt, an outright liar, a violator of dozens of rules of the Constitution, a lawbreaker.....you're saying...what? That because this person simply OCCUPIES a chair in the Oval Office, and has that title...then he should be supported? No matter what? Even with a 26% approval rating? (I'm not even going to get into "illiterate" and "inarticulate"). See, I believe that if the MAN/WOMAN who occupies that office, and cannot or will not fulfill the duites of THAT office because of ANY of thosem things, then giving them blind, foolish loyalty is not only the height of stupidity....it's Un-American. Tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.
5. The U.S. "keeps the bullies away"??? You mean kinda like this?:
Again, you're confusing the the country that existed in the immediate aftermath of World War II....to the current state it's evolved into. Back then, the U.S. was loved, admired and respected, and richly deserved all that and more (took almost 3 years to jump in and take on THAT bully, but I'm still happy they did). As it stands, Americans like yourself seem to blithely believe everythings okay...that the President is God.... that you really DO keep the bullies at bay. Really?
Saddam. Osama. Batista. Pinochet. Noriega ( to just name a few).
All "bullies. All dictators. And ALL at one point employees of Uncle Sam at one point or other. So, spare me. You haven't "defended the world".....your successive and current Administrations have, in fact, made it a much more dangerous place. And what is YOUR answer, Sir? You wave flag. Well, wave away then.
6. I'm glad you wanna knock our troops fighting and dying in Afghanistan. But I must point out something to you: currently, there are 2,500 Canadian troops (including armour and air support) engaged in active ground combat there. Of course, that's not much ON ITS OWN. However, given the size of our military, which is NOT AT ALL near the size of what you have, that makes what we HAVE sent over A LOT. We're 35 million living in the worlds second-largest country, in terms of land mass. I'm even amazed we could send over what we DID. Be that as it mat, we're there because YOU were attacked...not us. And all you did was prove that most Americans either don't know, or could care less. Okay, fine. Then I say bring our troops home NOW, and let YOU fine folks take care of it. Clearly, you don't need or appreciate whatever help we give you, or whatever form it may take.
7. I have NO idea what you emant by taking a knock at our dollar, but it's almost at par with the greenback (thanks to Bush economic policies and our oil resources):
When I cited all those dictators..you know....your former buddies who turned against you...they were what your intelligence community called "assests"; when those "assets" turned on you, then according to the CIA and NSA......this is called "blowback".
Sorry. Didn't mean to be so harsh on ya, and pop yer bubble.
Oh dear, Mr. Canuck, you are one odd fellow. I don't believe you have any of your facts straight at all. It seems to me that you like to piss and moan. And then of course you draw others in to piss and moan as well. I sit there and think to myself. This...is politics. And you are one very bad politician. You have to know a little something before you can make an intelligent statement. And you certainly are lacking in both.
Very ignorant! Am I the only one that looks at the real picture? Usually you judge the fact of whether or not you are winning by how many you killed and how many you lost right? Well per the media . . . we do not have a definite kill count on the enemy but I can tell you one thing it is well over the amount of soldiers that we have lost. I have a close friend in the special forces that keeps me informed of as much info as he can without getting in trouble and the media that you are getting your info from is very imcompetent and only posts what they want you to believe because good news is not news. Ever pay attention to how they get there poll information? It always comes from an "independent research company!" If we all listened to the polls that the media gives us like your 26% figure then President Bush would not be president! Before they announced that he had won the popular vote by a greater number than ANY OTHER PRESIDENT in this countries history, the media was having us believe that he was getting blown away! Look at how dead wrong they were!!!
I am not saying that he is perfect but at least he followed through with what he said he was going to do unlike most presidents who just say what they need to in order to get into office. As far as your comment on Clinton, I pity you if that is how you really feel.
If anyone thinks it is better to pull out of the war and leave them alone go out tonight and rent "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson in it. You can only avoid war for so long before it comes to your own turf and sometimes by then it is too late! You have to act offensively instead of defensively if you want to get anywhere.
Here are some facts for you to chew on: There will never be world peace, michael moore is fat, michael moore does 95% of his documentaries for popularity and $, War with Iraq was unavoidable, war protesters only make the soldiers that died and the soldiers that are fighting feel like shit, all those that disagree can take the next taxi up to Canada and join the real patriot's. You know . . . the ones that are patriotic for a country that is not really theirs!!! But call it what you may, it's Canada Day!!! There is a reason for your country being a bunch of French Fruitcakes! They never have to worry about going to war!!! We are a very diverse country and to criticize us would be criticizing the whole world because our country is made up of every nationality unlike your british/french ice skating rink!
And this, is a correct sort of statement. When you weed through the not so nice language. War is unavoidable. Iraq had to be taken care of. Canada is really a shadow of the US. I cannot believe that you are argueing about this here, however. I would have to say, that Mr. Canuck is a sad and strange individual, and I pity you sir.
Ha HA HAHAHA!!! What's the Canada: USA gun ownership ratio? What's the Canada: USA death by firearm ratio?? Why in Switzerland, where they require gun ownership, is the death by firearm rate so low compared to USA??? If USA is so great, Why are the mountians being stripped of all minerals then thrown back together again???? Who will have better country in years to come?????
I find it interesting that we view these issues as if they don't exist or taking place on anther planet. If one innocent civilian was accidently shot to death by our police. that is one too many. What if that civilian was your brother, husband ,father or even you? would that change your view. One post earlier made a comment that "when the police say "freeze' you should "freeze" . What if the person is Deaf? I agree that police officers deal with dangerous people every day and thier lives are on the line. However, this is the job you chose to do. you were not drafted into the police force. It is a job that carries a heavy responsibility. If you are racist or have pre disposed opinions about certain ethnic groups. You have to ask yourself. In those hairy situations when you may have to apprehend a suspect that may be armed. Does your ethnic views influence your decision process at all? Only you know the answer to this. P. S As for the post of buyamerican. Hitler also did what he said and he followed through, and his military had more offense than 79' dallas cowboys!
I would say that this is probably the most ridiculous thing that I have ever seen or heard. I knew there were pathetic people out there. And I knew there were idiots. And I knew that there were very troubled folks. But this would have to be a sign that we are all doomed. I cannot believe that anyone could ever watch this and not shake there heads in disgust. Racial profiling exists, but this is rude and absolutely disgusting. I can't believe this.
Hey NYPD please don't shoot me!! I promise this is only my Blackberry I'm using to send a msg to.... Oh please don't arrest me under anti terror laws!!!
Now how many emegency calls do NYorkans make a night? In Bagdad, Iraq it' 40,000 a NIGHT!! The over stressed and stretch staff have to catorgrise life threatening or just injury- like gang beatings, limbs crushed by collapsing building, exicutions and dead bodies (can be delt with later), rape, etc (these not deemed urgent enough to take details of, disconect caller). Of those that still are serious enough to have delt with now, what location (under which faction, etc, control) i.e. Can we send someone there? Do we have resources to deal with it? Will person/s be alive if we send ambulance? Is there any hospital avilable to take him/her/them? Etc, etc,etc............... "This is how we intended, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !!" Then to be considerd... When the COALITION of the WILLING "liberated" Iraq, UN gave sites to be proteced: Essential services ( hospitals, drinking water, etc); Libraries (historically the first place to build them); Museums; religious buildingsand sites; etc. Way down near the bottom: Oil fields. What were secured even before they entered Bagdad? ....the OIL FIELDS !! Not only that but the libraries and museums were plundered and ransacked, religious buildings and sites plundered and desicrated (yep, that ought to make the liberatees happy!!). Returnig access to Safe Driking Water and electric power to Iraqis was not a priority. What could the COALITIAN of the WILLING do to protect these?? The soldiers had no orders to protect these...... But the OIL FIELDS were safe from roving MARAUDERS!! I can't understand why Iraqis arn't embraceing the "liberating" forces!? How about you??
That Micheal Moore, what a card! This video reminds me of New York City Police Officer Russel Timoshenko. On July 7th Officer Timoshenko was shot twice in the face by two black men with "wallets", not too far from where Mr. Moore filmed this hilarious skit. Officer Timoshenko died a on July 14th, 2007. He was 23 years old.
likes2laugh and canuck : Yes Bush was really elected the first time you morons. It's the same reutine everytime the democrats lose! Everytime they recounted they were actually coming up with more votes for Bush because the democrats were using illegals for votes for Al Gore. Then came along Ferry and Edwards and things got interesting again. Wining and crying from the Dem's as usual cause they lost.
You retards need a life. Worry about your own damn country! I have a slogan that I have been saying for a number of years. "IT IS WHAT IT IS"
The fact of the matter is, unless you form a militia and go ape-shit on the government you are not going to make much of a dent in their decisions. I state my OPINIONS around people and accept theirs collectively. The END!
The problem I have with MOORE is that he goes about everything the wrong way. I compare it to raising a child. If you consistently criticize them and tell what bad things they are doing and never show the a way out like the right thing to do then they will just disregard you altogether. If you do nothing but embarress them in public they will grow to hate you. Showing them the correct way of doing things instead of just telling them they are wrong or doing something wrong does nothing positive except point out the bad.
Moore does a good job of pointing out the bad in our country just like Canuck and a few others. You might as well join the media because that's all they report on as well. Collectively you would be a good news team!
If I asked you Canuck to say 20 positive things about our country and 20 negative things I guarantee you it would take you half as much time to fill the 20 spots for your negative remarks!
Here is something from Gordon Brown's recent visit to the U.S. with President Bush at Camp David:
"America has shown by the resilience and bravery of its people from Sept. 11 that while buildings can be destroyed, values are indestructible," Brown said. "And we should acknowledge the debt the world owes to the United States for its leadership in this fight against international terrorism."
Did you read that Canuck, "the debt the world owes to the United States!"
According to you all we do is mess things up everywhere we go but then again I find you irrelevant!!!
While I'm not trying to Moore-bash, what he doesn't mention with the wallet incident (and what probably had something to do with the other shootings) is that the man who was shot didn't speak english, and when the police began questioning him he reached for his wallet to provide ID. The police thought he was drawing a gun. It's not like he was walking down the street with a wallet in his hand and the cops shot him.
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