Second sucks. These guys had me all the way until the end. That is where they decided to show just how "God like" they are with the racist "whiteboy" and Jewish comments. Very Christian!
Huh? Didn't get your comment. Especially didn't get the Glumbert intro. I was once an LDS missionary, and I encountered plenty of people like this guy, and I probably would have done about the same as they did, which if you noticed, was virtually nothing.
A minute or two into the conversation, it because pretty clear that he had no interest in a religious discussion, but was pretty much in love with the sound of his own voice. What do you do when someone just wants to show off and make you look bad? When you're a missionary, you let them vent and you say thanks and move on. Two years go by too quickly -- you quickly learn to just move past the people who aren't interested and move on.
How could anyone say they got owned. The only thing going through their heads at the time was probably, "Please finish up so we can find someone more receptive." They were speechless not just because he wouldn't let them talk, but for the same reason I was when this video was over: I could barely follow the guy. How can you be owned by someone who is so articulately incoherent? Every sentence was well spoken, but his point was .....?
Fact is, LDS missionaries don't argue with people about religion -- doing so is considered highly offensive. Deep discussions are fine, listening to others beliefs is fine, answering hard questions is fine, but you don't make people look bad, you don't slam their faith, and you question anyone's sincerity. Just because it's the right thing to do.
Anyway, I fail to see how these guys were "owned." When only one guys is talking, no debate is taking place. They did what they were trained to do -- be respectful to someone who wasn't giving any respect in return, then move on without any fanfare.
The guy's gloating at the end was a delicious irony for me. Isn't "Smug Christian" kind of a contradiction in terms?
I'm pretty sure that when he meant "us" he meant "Christians", and "standing before" was all about having a civil discourse about religion. I like to see Mormons getting schooled.
The problem with discourse about religion is that so many people are close minded and they'll consider something that someone else says about their religion as an attack when it's simply a critique.
surferbum, I believe you're right. The dude got charged up at the end and I was picking up the stress in his voice, to me it seemed very close to a violent confrontation, so I was thinking about his little gang he had there with him....as for the rest of your comment, that can be said for just about anything...just replace the word religion with another word and I bet it works! Most especially here on the glumbert dimension!
The problem with discourse about ______ is that so many people are close minded and they'll consider something that someone else says about their ______ as an attack when it's simply a critique.
I'm surprised that most of you that have commented actually noticed how ignorant this guy was, I expected that most of you would have supported this video from the kinds of comments I've seen previously, good for you guys. I mean what was he saying at the end about " those who don't believe in Christ try to dominate the conversation" or something to that effect? What does he think he was just doing? It's so funny how he didn't even really give them a chance to talk... he had already made up his mind prior and was just trying to look cool in front of his friends. I know a lot of Mormons, and while they might be seen as "annoying" when they try to preach or convert or whatever... at least they're not rude like this guy was. He was just plain rude. I really don't think this guy was acting very Christian at all. He was so "proud" of himself.
Yes, he was overbearing a bit, but he was right in the scripture he spoke and the morons could not answer his question nor come back with anything smart to say in all that time they were silent.
pwned
P.S. I'm speculating of course, but I think he meant "us" to mean "Christians".
No they weren't pwned ... in order to be pwned you have to at least be trying to argue in the first place. They weren't. They couldn't ... and to be honest with you those missionaries probably knew a lot more then he did with respect to the scriptures. They're trained to be able to answer any questions. The problem is, much like this man did, people don't REALLY give them an opportunity. Pay attention at 4:37 where one of the missionaries tries to answer a question, and instead of letting him, he interrupts and says " no no no ...now listen can I get a word in" or something along those lines. I mean honestly. They weren't trying to fight this guy. They both try to remain calm and composed the whole time, and the jack ass keeps making comments about "not letting other people talk" and ... " "getting defensive." As far as I can tell, he's the only one getting defensive. And he obviously doesn't know what Mormons believe, because at one point he says they worship Joseph Smith not Jesus Christ. The name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints." Not the church of Joseph Smith. Ignorant people just really bother me. If you're going to disagree with someone, and try to "prove" them wrong. You might want to actually find out about what they practice and preach first. As for me, I don't believe we should judge anyone, not Mormons, or anyone else. Everyones trying to do the same thing, make it to a good place. Well most of us. The people that go to /b/ are trying to do something different all together. Lol.
mickle: just because they call themselves the "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints." , that does not mean they actually listen to Jesus Christ.
goodshorts - ...and with that same logic you can make the counter argument that they do. Yes, titles, names, declaratives... they really are all superficial. Who are we to judge? Thats what all of the worlds worst leaders have done. From Jews, to people of different colors, to Muslims... If you're different then us, and we don't understand you then you must be horrible. Defame, maim, kill, and destroy. So much hate, and closed mindedness. Just leave people alone if you don't like them.
Whoa....chill out, folks. What's positive is that both interests are genuine, despite their differences.
Been approached by Mormons in the past....admire their energy, zeal, and dedication to evangelize (I couldn't do it). Also, I admire (for the lack of a better identification of their intended audience), the southern Baptist approach, wonderfully espoused by the Mormons' target. There was a slight arrogance in the Mormons' assumption that they could educate anyone they encountered...and that was quickly, and totally dispelled.
People of faith should dispute details over wine and shrimp cocktail...and never argue faith itself. Just my opinion.
I LOVED this encounter/exchange...tho' only the Mormon participants stand to grow as a result, at least in my humble opinion. The well bible-schooled man appears to take unseemly pleasure in out-quoting the Mormon reps.
Still, beats the hell out of what the radical Islamists propound and pursue (again, IMHO).
Postscript .... black dude finished his tripple burger and biggie fries, loaded his gat, and celebrated by buying some weed. LDS boys went back to their sponsors house and cried themselves to sleep.
Mickle, ( Who are we to judge? Thats what all of the worlds worst leaders have done. From Jews, to people of different colors, to Muslims...)
The... Meaning Christens, I presume?
They're a few people just waiting to jump in on this thread. Hovering over their key boards,Taking it all in, until they see fit to jump in and show all here the one true way to God. The only way to God! Oh, And when they post you can be certain the context will be full of Judgement then later replaced by self -righteous indignation.
Why is it people feel the need to argue they're religious beliefs?
I mean, If you believe its the truth, then why argue! The truth needs no defense.
The reason most of these people learn to recite scripture is that they can do what the man in the video did!Try and Make themselves feel important.
The so called christen man (in the video) believes he has power, in the fact that he's learned to memorize a few passages from the bible.
Its actually a great example of a phrase. given a little knowledge ...We will most certainly make assholes out of ourselves? Somewhat like the people above did!
Jesus of Nazareth had the answer to the meaning of life, And it was simple in meaning. just not so simple in application! Love thy enemy. Love thy neighbor! The So called Christen above does not show me any sign of that message.
And lest all the (GOOD) Christens forget, Jesus used to squat to take his daily Shit!
And the comment that he sure showed those white boys was just to typical.:)
It probably would have served his cause better if he would have just said (my all time favorite) Kill Whitey!!
Also the two mormons Looked like the wedgie proof kids all grown up?
You tease me with your gimps err... glimpse of Brilliance! No, Please come back. Have you not more you can offer?
jango, If you do decide to show yourself again on this thread (highly unlikely) Then perhaps we can reword the title of the clip. To something more appropriate.
Like, JANGO OWEND BY FUCKING RETARD!
huh, what cha ya think there?
The truth, In the context I am( trying) to imply needs NO defense!
Oh, I'm so glad you posted. I love to hear serious points made in the middle of an unintelagent conversations.
I agree with your poin about Christians replying in such annouying ways to anything that scares them. Isn't it sad when Christains can think of nothing to say and so they attack. That is pointless and not what Jesus did any ways. Stand on the knowledge of the truth that you have do not step down to fight an already won battle.
You brought up the idea of truth not needing defense. I agree. What it requires how ever is understanding. Christians reach out because this world is a sinking ship. We see the evidance all around us. We (christians) know where the real life boat is. We don't know this because we feel it we (should at least) know it because we have examined what we believe and it holds up. No need for defence since it is TRUTH however all things true can be believed in and we should aim to GUIDE to the truth. NOT DRAG KICKING AND SCREAMING. Do you like this answer/explanation? If I sound preachy please correct me I simply won't to define a few points? If they make since comment back with anything. I would enjoy more commenters like you!
"Religeon is not fiction dear. Please refrain from randomly posting personale oppions and then not defending them. They will be ignored!"
Apparently they won't be ignored! Earth created in 6 days, only 6000 years ago? Kill homosexuals? Kill children who insult their parents? Great story, but I can't say any of these morals are taught in science books. Don't worry though, at one point most people thought the earth was flat. It would be silly to expect everyone to grasp reality.
"We're the real ones, you've just seen it live"? He me may know his Bible inside and out and be able to out-quote someone but take the fucking ego out of it. Why is it every denomination is trying to say they're the ONLY way? He certainly didn't convert those two saps by trying to make them feel small. By the look of them they were raised that way and don't know anything else but the "Christian" seems a little desperate to prove his point. Like he just wanted to flex his religious muscles.
you are not very secure are you? the whole situation was wrong and argued poorly. this has nothing to do with the individual. we are not fighting FLESH AND BLOOD but powers and princeapalities of this dark world. So that said, insulting the two young men is just IDIOTIC!!! this has nothing to do with the way they look or act it has to do with what is in there souls okay??
Bah I have dislike people that are rude like this guy.... I give anyone a chance to state thier case then if I'm not willing to discuss it further I decline to comment further and move on... but I give them the time to talk.
I would like to know who allowed all the useless comments on here? is there any one who could check before stupid people stateing worthless personale oppinions based on nothing start to talk?? well if there isn't there should be. these people take up a lot of room.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. He told the two guys the truth and let them know how much they really know. The Word of God is to never be argued because His Word stands alone. God does not need us to fight his battles. The sad part is the man went against the two knowing they were weak and unlearned, If you are going to be an example, be a total example, It is sad to see someone win against someone else, but lose against himself. And he spoke about "over-talking?" He overspoke many times. He should have found a better way to speak to the two young guys to help teach and encourage them. Righteously speaking carries on, even after the conversation ended. Fool, speaking and believing the word also includes living the word. There are people on the planet that can stand before him, he is not in any ways perfect. He just took an opportunity to make an embarrassing situation gain a point on his behalf, but it was all shot down with his own words.
Who's the one who so conveniently had the video camera in a parking lot at night to catch the whole splendid exchange on tape?
How, or why, did the whole idea ever even come about that person (or country) #1 feels compelled to convince person (or country) #2 that they have to feel and/or believe the same things as person (or country) #1? Person (or country) #2 disagrees. Then person (or country) #3 steps in, with an entirely new idea, and both persons (or countries) #1 and persons (or countries) #2 are both wrong. Nobody wins. Nobody is right.
Acceptance of one another's differences is the only answer. Accept you can't change others. You can only control your own thoughts and beliefs, and leave it at that.
FTB....I think I understand what you're trying to say. At least, I think I do, but actually I'm not sure. On just one point, I am guessing that one of the friends of the "preacher" just happened to have a video camera...these chance visits paid by Mormon evangelizers are subject to such coincidences. I don't think this was, in any way, pre-arranged.
On another point, read "cotton" above....he/she takes the preacher to the woodshed on his behavior....cheers to her.
chaz, I did read cottoncandy's remarks again. Great points were made, absolutely.
I guess I could simplify my own remarks a bit. I kind of mucked it up. What was going through my mind, but not necessarily coming out right in type, is that it always seems there is so much discord on this planet. So many people are disturbed because other people don't think the same way they do. I know I sound like a Girl Scout, but why can't people just accept, and get along?? Why all the fighting? Nothing wrong with discussing a topic, showing your own thoughts, or letting others know how you feel. But to actually get angry or abusive because someone disagrees with you is all such a sad waste of time and energy.
Cottoncandy4u - what air they breathe on your planet?
These pricks got what they deserved. Well, no actually. They deserved to be mown down by a Hummer or eaten by an anaconda. I bet the video was put there by them to show how good they were at being missionaries. Haw haw haw!
The only way they'd get my respect is if they turned out to be 12 foot lizards.
Shall i need speak again? Cruelity is a useless weapon, it is like running into a battle with a water ballon. you are not doing much good and your sound stupid! SOUND i said. did you get that? oh my goodness
right and wrong move across the line of truth like a snake looking for nuts
we are all born and die, in between we all go on a bit then that's the lot, it's then time to live in a box and become dust that ends up on someones shelf, you are now dusting a person who use to rabbit on as well getting things wrong
skid - hopefully you have a tether that is keeping you tied to the earth. You are sounding a bit odd...third wine? (my favorite) Third scotch? (my really favorite)
Snakes aren't slithering here, and they don't eat nuts, and we are, actually, all RIGHT. It's the failure to notice that which causes the friction.
Waxing profound is tiring. Sleep well. Tomorrow is another day.
a little bored yesterday, i was trying to be profound, you gotta try
I suppose what i meant was we are dropped on this planet not really knowing whats going on, all ours lifes humans ask questions with only humans to answer them.
no wine for me only the drug of life, this is enough
It is easy for one to argue against something that we don't agree with but it is extremly hard to sit down and listen allowing for a FAIR conversation. This kindness was not shown by any one of these men. The mormons though they did allow for the other man to talk did not stop to combat what he was saying they had the deminor of someone trying to change minds but not to grow them sleves. The bible says for us to love corection. In fact it calls those who hate being corrected FOOLS. The Argueing mand didn't stop to listen or allow the mormons to defend themselves. He simply plowed over them. If he had backed down and rescpected NOT EXCEPTED their turns in speaking I am sure that these men would have walked away feeling they had meet some one that day who changed something in them. It is easy to argue with some one as I said before but it is much harder to in the times of heat back down and allow God to work in peoples lives through your respectful manner.
These men have had lots of people argue with them! Make a diffrence
1. Don't hand out random tracks (they did discuss in a form points here)
2. Do not look for ingnorant people. Expect and welcome correction or dissagreement. The point was to change hearts not to show people that they are dumb. I'm sorry but that was just not how Jesus went about it and neither should we.
3. Respect other peoples time. Let them talk you can disect what they are saying after they have finished. (good listening skills!!!!)
4. Do not do what the one man did and say "Well I think" you are not important. Site credable sources *the bible, secular/biblical authers ect. A well proven point holds water better then a Load point.
YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO TALK SMARTER OR LOUDER BUT TO WIN SOULS INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD!!!!
Anyone, of any religion, who tries to ram their beliefs down someone elses throat should be shot. There, I said it. Believe what you want and let me believe what I want. Otherwise I may preach to you from the book of My foot up your ass.
jeez, Billy....reading what you posted was like listening to the rants of the muslim extremists...DIE, NON-BELIEVER ! I don't think you really meant that.
Mormon evangelizers, like 7th Day Adventists, are docile, inoffensive (mostly), while irritatingly superior, never hostile...and not into bullying people. (Oh, BTW, I don't belong to either one....just to set the record straight).
If I remember correctly from earlier experiences, the New Testament did encourage followers to bring others to whatever "true" belief they held...and the Mormons, and 7th Day folks, get my vote for effort. I have a different faith, but it only takes me a few minutes to allow them to leave me, both of us intact, and without rancor. Worth the little effort on my part, I think.
Like I said, I don't really think you meant what you said, when you think about it. Being pissed off at someone else is no rationale for their elimination, except in the mind of the irrational, extremist, Muslim ignorants, whose ignorance is continually used by their leadership in deadly efforts to intimidate others into submission...meaning, power for the leaders.
OK....just finishing my third wine....my excuse for volubility
Oh, come on Chaz, I was just funnin'. I don't really want them shot, maybe just tickled mercilessly, or shot, but with fluffy bullets, or, made to spend the weekend with camuck, in his mom's basement, playing naked twister.
mmmm .. so our planet is about 10,000 years old eh ? lol ... whatever man !
Mormons owned by Christian ? It's more like .. hey you want to waste 6 mins of your life ? ya ! well watch at this video ....
How can you take someone wearing a condom on his head seriously? I would be looking for the resovoir tip and not paying attention to the rest of the conversation.
"How about that SUV full of large black men ,dressed in all white except for black do-rags"?
"yea, they look like they need savin"
"Son, you done rolled up on the wrong Christians!"
It was kind of like the varsity vs the JV squad.
If the Mormon team would have had their special "space ghost divining originally found by Joe Smith" bible, there would have been a different score in this game
How do they ride those bikes without getting wedgies from their magic Mormon underwear ???
Wow--- this guy had all of the right points....shut them down....
but he seems to need more love and less cockyness. Without love you are only a big mouth.
Big mouth---what a waist of the powerful WORD of God.
Man speak the truth in love,
I used to be follower of Joseph Smith and am pretty well versed in his teachings. I stopped believing when I actually learned what that fool taught and how anti Christian it was. To the former LDS missionary, do you know what blood atonement is? how is this a "Christian" ideal? That Christ's blood doesn't cover all sins? This was brought in Journal of Discourses and taught by Brigham Young and JS. So don't try and deny it as Mormon doctrine.
Look at biblical definition of "False Prophet". Joseph Smith hits 9 our 10 of these definitions. It takes one false prophesy...look up JS sending followers to Canada to sell copyrights of the book of Mormon to Canadians, JS admits (witnessed by David Whittmer, who is given credibility by Mormons - check front of Book of Mormon) that revelations come from God, Man,
Dfan always interested in finding out about the history of my country, And that is part of it! smith and young, If you know of any links I would be more then happy to read them!
Sincerely, Randalflagg erst scrotum of Glumbertium!!
And are you aware that 9 out of 10 active Mormons have heard stuff like this all our lives? Look, no disrespect to you or any of y'all out there, but it's been a quite a while since I've heard something scandalous-sounding about my church that I haven't heard before. I know my church's history, including its warts, both real and contrived. I don't only go to official sources, either. I'm an extremely curious person in addition to being a journalist, and I look into things.
Most of what you hear about the LDS Church does exactly what it's designed to do -- make it look as weird as possible and prevent people from ever taking it seriously. If the arguments you've heard have that effect on you and you're okay with that, that's fine. But most of what I've read against the church is akin to those conspiracy theories that say the government brought down the Twin Towers through controlled demolition. Pretty convincing stuff if you hadn't studied the other side's arguments.
The guy in this video and his "take-down" of the missionaries was no take-down in my mind. He succeeded in dominating the conversation and quoting his favorite scriptures and making some insulting remarks, but that's it. That pretty much describes most conversations I've had with anti-Mormons. After several times talking to a wall, you just shut up and let them finish. The alternative is to spend several hours in a pointless conversation where you take apart their sound-bite "witnessing" statements while they rudely talk over you every time you come close to taking apart their arguments.
Anyway, most of what you've likely heard about my church sounds scandalous. But the whole point is not to show you what "Mormons really believe," but to ensure that you never bother to find out. My former bishop began investigating the church after the anti-Mormon tracts his friends gave him accidentally let slip what we believe. Check out Mormon dot org if you want to know what we're really about.
pubass - you may have noticed that the rub between Mormon evangelizers and those who they attempt to evangalize is clear, on several levels:
...many dislike being preached to by kids...most evangalizers are equipped only to handle simple questions, needing to rely on the "party line" for more testing questions...the very basis of their evangelical approach is that "we are right, and you are wrong", which is not a strong platform for discussion between the participants (to say the least).
I admire the zeal and energy of Mormons...but they need to acknowledge situations where their intended supplicants might already have a viable faith, and know more about it than they do.
Just another opinion from my third wine brilliance...funny how that happens.
If you want an interesting history of the Mormons, check out Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer. This is how all religions get started, but Mormonism was recent enough that the actions of the foolish and deluded followers of a charming, egotistical, (or just plain insane) opportunist like Joseph Smith are documented, and not lost in antiquity. It is basically Monty Python's Life of Brian, but not really so funny when it is actually true.
Religion is poison. Christians, Mormons, Jews, etc. are all fucking up the planet.
Watched a Nova special last night and Mako n' stream have been discussing this at length! Well it seems the whole Argument is moot! Seeing , that what they Have put forth in court, and in front of the whole country... Was this!
that is the whole case and I know no one's going to read all that ! But if you look at certain parts of the testimony. It shows not one!, But two of these Creationist perjured themselves!
It was quite the coup d'etat !
In the very beginning of this story one of These creationist took down some Students artwork that was hanging in the school and burned it! ( Sound familiar) Then lied about not knowing who did it.
I may be rehashing old topics, but this is all very exciting for me to actually be able to read the court manuscripts! Especially for something as important as keeping a pseudo science from being an actual curriculum!
The best part of the whole incident , or better yet! The Irony of the story is the judge that not only agreed whit the plaintiff's but went out of his way to elaborate on how the defendants were out of control! was in fact appointed I believe by none other then Our very own president!
And then to really show you what good christens these creationist really were,they mailed out the there death threat letters to not only some of the plaintiff's, but also the judge himself!
Creationist believe very much like the Taliban did, or do. To bring not only religion unto state, But they're religion and ONLY they're religion!
It also brought to my attention the document written by a creationist titled -(The Wedge) Real scary stuff!
Well I'm going to read some of that trial testimony. Just amazing!
Why waste breath over arguing who condemned Christ?
We are all condemned to death due to our sinful nature.
Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
BUT, we have Jesus. His undying, completely selfless love saves us. Our debt has been paid. We are reconciled with God and can spend forever with our Creator in heaven.
"After saying all these things, Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son so he can give glory back to you. For you have given him authority over everyone. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him. And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth."
saying that mormons don't believe in christ- they believe in joseph smith, is like saying that catholics don't believe in christ- they believe in the pope, and lutherans don't believe in christ- they believe in martin luther, etc. If he had any sense whatsoever he would realize that joseph smith testified of christ. that is what the book of mormon does. it testifies of christ. it doesn't testify of joseph smith. and how can he say we have a bible, we don't need anything else? is there something wrong with having more words of christ? shouldn't any christian be thirsty to hear more about christ and his teachings? did christ come to the earth and say.. this is my book, and there can be no other scripture? the bible wasn't around yet. is it possible that Christ dealt with more people than had the privelage of having their records compiled into the bible? is it possible that many records were destroyed, or that many records haven't been found yet? and are you saying that if those records turned up, they wouldn't be applicable because they aren't in "The Bible"? What is scripture? Scripture is a record of prophets and apostles about their dealings with God and Christ. The Bible is simply a compilation of that scripture, compiled by a King. Not all scripture has or will ever be accounted for in the near future. Furthermore, do you think that Christ only dealt with people in the Middle East? Do you think God loves any of his children more than other children? Do you think he only gave truth to people living in the middle east? i would suggest that he has always tried to send prophets to other lands, just as he did in the middle east. who knows? but it is entirely wrong to stand there and say that the Bible is all there is and ever will be. Now maybe you have read the book of mormon and you're not buying it. I can respect that. But i can't respect a guy like that saying that he doesn't need anything else. Sure, the Bible is an amazing book, but why not hear more about christ? why not find out for yourself? how do you know it isn't scripture if you haven't read it? and obviously he hasn't read it because he said we didn't believe in jesus christ. the book is called, The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. but yeah he's right it probably just testifies of joseph smith.. just like the bible testifies of King Constantine. that last bit was sarcasm if you didn't catch it :)
dfan, christ doesn't cover all sins, in the case that the people who sinned aren't willing to come unto christ when they are brought to a knowledge of him. we must accept and follow christ for our sins to be forgiven. i would think that a person who is so "well-versed" with the mormon religion would realize that.
OK look, "mormons" are elitist pricks. Its easy to fall in love with your religion when they tell you because you were blessed to be born into a mormon family you're somehow better than everyone else, "chosen," and can become god-like yourself. Remember that next time you meet a mormon, all they're thinking is somehow they are better than you, a god walking on Earth. There's a special place in hell for all mormons, I'm sure of it.
Here's where all the mormons jump on and say I don't know what I'm talking about, that I'm making this up, that I'm a liar. Yeah, I'll stop here because I don't want to end up in a bodybag somewhere in Utah for exposing them. The "Latter Day Saints" is a cult.
I believe that you are just as qualified to strive to be a better person as I am. I think you are just as qualified as any leader of the lds church. Yes, I believe that I am blessed to have been raised by great parents in a great family, but that doesn't mean I think I am "chosen." Blessed and Chosen are two very different things.
Comments (96)
To post a comment, you need to login or signup.