If you notice, as soon as she was clear of the vehicle, she started swinging with that knife; as soon as she started THAT, the officer nearest to her began to draw his weapon; it would have been a clean shoot. The moment anyone brandishes a gun, knife, bat, crowbar etc at a police officer, then they've just signed their own death warrant. If the officer figures out some other way to diarm them, then bonus for the suspect (as was this case).
But legally?
The officer's covered.
Aim for center-of-mass; pull trigger; write reports; go home; learn to live with it. End of story.
I think it was an idiotic decision to tackle a woman holding a knife as usually one of two things is going to happen and we saw one of those things. I personally would have backed up, created some distance, and tried to pursue other means of subduing her. Jesus Christ they'll taser a young, fit college kid when he is on the ground held down by at least 3 cops but they won't taser a fat lady with a knife?
But seriously, that's a good point you've brought up, and I look at it this way:
When you see events like this (or worse, are IN events like this), hindsight will ALWAYS be 20/20. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, etc. However, they ALL have one thing in common, no matter what the situation is: human decision/judgement is required. In THIS case, there was the high possibility of the situation escalating into a lethal force option; one of the cops, making a split-second decision, rolled the dice, on the chance of taking that option out of the equation. And luckily, the dice came up sevens.
In the University of Florida incident, you had a group of officers showing exceptionally poor judgement, and decision-making capabilities.
Situations like these will never be concise and structured; they will always be fluid, and evolving second-by-second. Tough call, considering who might be the officers involved, and how the suspects behave.
Make the right decision, and you'll get your laurels; make the wrong decision, here come the darts. Do ya feel lucky, punk? LOL!
Yeah, I hear you bro. I hated it when superiors armchair quarterbacked decisions I made and here I am doing the same thing. We have the luxury of looking at a video for a few minutes, rewinding it, digesting it before we come up with the perfect solution on how to handle a situation. That cop had, oh, a split second to make his decision. At least he made one and quick. I was always told it's best to make a quick decision that might not be 100% right than to wait forever to make one that is.
Canuck...I am with you here. Make the best decisions possible when a threat is visible. I am on the cops' side, fer sher. Are there other ways...yep. But, when the weapon comes out and it threatening use, it's time for action.
hmmm...kinda similar philosophy to threats from dictators half way around theworld.
It is one thing to actually SEE a weapon a weapon being brandished and used in threatening manner towards oneself and being forced to make a split-second decision, and another thing entirely to CLAIM the other has a weapon...wait for a time.....and then kill them...and then find out there was NOT a weapon.
(chuckles)
Nice try, young Jedi.
In the the future, you must become ONE with the Force....and not be tempted to the Dark Side to use it...indiscriminately, for self-serving gain.
Movies have done a grave disservice to the human body; it's actually quite resilient, in the sense that it can take a huge amount of punishment before expiring (barring something extreme like a motor vehicle collision, or falling from a 17th floor balcony, or a shotgun blast to the head, etc.). In this case, these officers obviously saw that she was still conscious, breathing and not having a huge amount of blood loss, in which case she would have gone into shock. This, of course, would happen if an artery, or some other sensitive blood-circulation area was compromised. They made the correct decision to move her minimally, and leave the knife as it was; had they removed it, it could have caused worse problems, since the knife acted like a stopper. Even if the knife had pireced her heart, she'd still have a chance, depending on where and how deeply the heart was impaled.
Not much else to go on, looking at the video, but that's my evaluation, for whatever it's worth.
gut wounds hurt like shit and if left unattended, bleed out...however....if treated, it's kinda like a c-section, it's a bitch while it's healing....after, not so bad.
C - I have to agree that the media has done a great disservice to the resiliency of the human body, but I think they go the other way. The movies and TV make it seem like two guys can beat on each other with pipes for 40 minutes and it is nothing, and get shot 12 times and just laugh and say "I'm OK". The mechanisms that run the body can be destroyed by any number of small events, even a small clot of blood.
The position of this knife is very close to her diaphragm, and though with intensive medical treatment she would live, but when you loose your diaphragm you are usually dead pretty quickly, not to mention the massive internal bleeding by slicing the cluster of arteries that feed the bowel.
The cops did what they thought was correct for the situation, it was just a accident. The cause is entirely on the victim.
Yeah, now THAT part DOES sound kinda silly, don't it?
Can't figure out why he'd say that, seeing as how in the chain of events shown that led up to that point, it appeared quite legit. She was brandishing a knife; she got tackled; she went down; she fell on the knife; she was accidentally impaled on it. There didn't seem to be a specific intent to gut her with it; it was simply a by-product of the situation; a fluke.
So I can't see the reasoning behind that officers comment.
"Yeah we found her, she's got a knife in her gut." is how it sounded to me. What would you have said in the heat of the moment?
"Oh you wanna know what happened? Well we found the crazy lady right, she pulled a knife on us, so 'jeremy' decided to spear tackle her and she landed on the knife, which is still lodged in her gut".
Save the report for when you have to write up a statement, they don't want the day's story over the phone.
Husband - "Honestly officer I was standing here peeling an orange when my wife ran round the corner and onto the knife... 17 times"
Officer - I see Wink wink
One has to wonder if they would've reacted this way to a young male? This was unquestionably the right way to deal with the situation. The big cop, doing the body slam, was brave as hell to do that, and he didn't have to either. That was about as justified as you can get to use lethal force! She had already used a dangerous weapon against the cops (smashing into cruiser with her car) and could've been taken out for that alone. Falling on that knife, in a way that it would stick in her gut, was a fluke and probably wouldn't happen again if you tried! I'm sure it didn't hurt as much as a bullet. On second thought, knife wounds seem to hurt more than a bullet wound (I've had both) so I should say, she's lucky it was a knife and not bullet(s) in her gut!
I agree with several comments already made:
....the officer made the correct decision, intuitively (no time for weighing one choice )against another
...any delay on his part almost surely would have involved gunfire from more than one policeman...there is little chance she would have survived
...it was pure chance that the blade was positioned so as to stab her as she fell
...he took one helluva chance - not hard to imagine a different outcome where he gets to "wear" the knive after a scuffle.
Kudos to that officer, and the system that lead him to take such appropriate action so instinctively.
why not a tazer (sp), anyway, they could have just left her alone, keep everyone safe, the pulling out of the car and the tackle was a bit much. Than again they could shoot her so she doesn't hurt herself with the blade.
Sorta like vote for peace or I'll kill ya.
Okedokey....stock away. I have large amounts of twalay tissue (toilet paper), ground beef, chicken thighs, home-made tomato sauce, chicken broth, beef broth, clam broth (even home-done clam meat), and...well, what else.....oh...turkey thighs, duck breasts, and sausages, bratwursts, and lamb chops.........admitedly all frozen....but all ready for good eating at any moment.
some police forces are not in to the tazer, others are. When Gpa was the Sheriff they use to carry "Black Jacks"! Those were out lawed then they carried clubs, now they have been outlawed. If these cops had any of these items at their disposal the woman wouldn't have been knocked down on to the knife.
Yea, arm chair quarter backing is easy to do after the fact.
If you listen the officer was speaking to the paramedics when he said, "We've found her, she was a knife in her gut." not "We found her with a knife in her gut." I'm a police officer in Ontario and only our NCOs carry tasers so if there is not an NCO on scene then tasing is not an option. Pepper spray is often unaffective on a mentally unstable person. Our vests do not stop knives. So if a person comes at me with a knife guess what, I'm going home to my kids at the end of shift and so is my partner. I've was in a similar situation last summer only the drunk came at me with a brick. I was doing the guy a favor by giving him a ride home but when he stepped out of the cruiser, he turned into an asshole, grabbed a brick off the ground and came at me. I was able to get my asp baton out and stop the guy. The whole thing went sideways on me in about two seconds. So next time the armchair QBs want to comment ask yourself what you would have done with less than a second to react. If the guy came at me with a knife, I would have without hesitation gone to a higher use of force then a baton.
I'm not in love, so don't forget it. It's just a silly phase I'm going through. And just because I call you up, Don't get me wrong, don't think you've got it made. I'm not in love, no no, it's because... I like to see you, but then again, That doesn't mean you mean that much to me. So if I call you, don't make a fuss - Don't tell your friends about the two of us. I'm not in love, no no, it's because...
I keep your picture upon the wall. It hides a nasty stain that's lying there. So don't you ask me to give it back. I know you know it doesn't mean that much to me. I'm not in love, no no, it's because...
Ooh, you'll wait a long time for me. Ooh, you'll wait a long time. I'm not in love, I'm not in love...
Who's gonna tell you when, It's too late, Who's gonna tell you things, Aren't so great.
You cant go on, thinkin', Nothings' wrong, but bye, Who's gonna drive you home, tonight.?
Who's gonna pick you up, When You fall? Who's gonna hang it up, When you call?
Who's gonna pay attention, To your dreams? And who's gonna plug their ears, When you scream?
You can't go on, thinkin' Nothings wrong, but bye, (who's gonna drive you) (who's gonna drive you) Who's gonna drive you home, tonight? (who's gonna drive you home)
(bye baby) (bye baby) (bye baby) (bye baby)
Who's gonna hold you down, When you shake? Who's gonna come around, When you break?
You can't go on, thinkin', Nothin's wrong, but bye, (Who's gonna drive you) (who's gonna drive you) Who's gonna drive you home, tonight? (who's gonna drive you home)
Oh, you know you can't go on, thinkin', Nothin's wrong, (Who's gonna drive you) (Who's gonna drive you home) Who's gonna drive you home, tonight?
I don't think she was intending to hurt the officers. She seemed to hold the knife downward or away from them when she was pulled out of the van. As it said up front, she was suicidal. Maybe the injury will make her really think about how much she wants to die. [No 2nd guesses on the cops actions from me.]
i think cops deserve a little leeway once in a while. this crazy ass bitch had a knife pulled, she got what was coming to her. if a cop says, "put down the knife" then put down the friggin knife. otherwise you end up blindsided and stuck like a pig. plus, it saves on paperwork. "crazy bitch found with knife in stomach" is easier than the alternative. yay for police use of force!
Second time out here today and a lot in the past, they dealt with these people before, they should be getting to know a bit about them maybe. There is no doubt they would be cleared had they shot her, but where are the stun guns, shit they use them on people who move too slow when being told what to do, now it's the perfect time to use it. I don't like this because they pulled on her arm to get her out of the van knowing she had that knife and the "Yeah we found her she's got a knife in her gut" is total bullshit, thats what the pigs do.
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