You're right. A picture does not convey the truth. I guess he's using the images to allow you to make the connection with what we have seen over happen over the last 7 years.
Point no.2 at the end says "long incarceration of prisoners without charges".......... can anybody say David Hicks???
Point no.4..... Huge amounts of wasted money get pumped into Bush's war, while the health system becomes the laughing stock of the world.
Point no.6..... You all complain about the Fox network like it is some huge conspiracy when a controversial video gets posted. None can argue that point...
Point no.7..... The fear of God has been pumped into the American citizens once again around this time of year because it is approaching 9/11. Comments like "attacks are iminent" and "we have high indications from intelligence of an attack" get thrown around. Pffffftt, can you trust the same intelligence that said there were positively WMD's....
I could keep going but I think no.14 is the main one, GW only got in coz there wasn't really much of a choice, the voters got shafted bigtime.
isn't democracy great??? this idiot is allowed to call americans fascists without any retribution from the country.....a fascist country would hunt him down.....must be nice to call people names without proof......
It's a new, smarter form of fascism where to lock someone up would prove it and make him a martyr. Better to alienate him and call him "un-american". Otherwise you couldn't run around calling yourself "the land of the free".
as far as I'm concerned, most politicians either need a dick in their mouth or one in the ass....I'm voting for the guy from Law and Order whether he runs or not.
I would never imagine that someone whose handle is GeorgeW would happen to subscribe to his ideals. Do you happen to be one of those Americans who tells others to "like it or leave"? Just a guess.
What College is this Professor Britt working at these days? I can't find anything other than other propoganda he has written and that his name seems to be "Laurence" not "Lawrence"
A small detail, but illustrates the point that this guys may have heard this and gotten all stirred up. Without really thinking things through.
The big difference between the Bush Admin. and real facism is that that the secret police have note beaten him with a rubber hose for posting this. Then again...
I am glad that some people out there are trying to hold the Executive Office accountable, but how about writing your Congressmen next and getting them to do the same! Why elect democrats if they are going to act like such twats? Blogging and poorly edited videos are great, but how about getting your ass off the soft chair in the coffe shop and holding ALL your elected officials accountable.
I have to start planning for my fantasy football draft, so I hope someone does the heavy lifitng for the rest of us.
I guess it's time for some more totally useless info.....
The only three presidents that had to deal with actual or impending impeachment...Andrew Johnson...Richard Nixon...Bill Clinton...all have names that are euphemisms for "penis" Johnson, Dick and Willie!
mitercut, i dont see you shooting the passload framer gun out there , do that with ........ i dont know something like a laborer who ruins your brand new wood chisel's lol lol lol..................no for real i have one in mind.
FASCISM: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race (both parties do this when convenient) above the INDIVIDUAL (definately a liberal stance) and that stands for a centralized autocratic government (even more liberal) headed by a dictatorial leader (both parties would love this) severe economic and social regimentation (can you say social security, medicare, "universal" healthcare, progressive taxation, affirmative action) and forcible suppression of opposition (again, both parties try this)
At least be intillectually honest when you start throwing around words like "fascism" or "nazi". At the very least, know the damn meaning of the word.
"centralized autocratic government (even more liberal)"
Wow, so the conservatives are suddenly the champions of a weak federal government? You sure as hell could have fooled me. Seems like they love to use it to enforce their beliefs and policies on the rest of us. Just like liberals do.
The tools that the government uses to advance its cause is not dependent on the ideology of those running it. There have been leftist and rightist governments which have used fascist principles in order to stay in power.
I don't disagree droofus. My comment was directed to show exactly that. This video makes it out that only conservatives have the potential to be fascists. And, like it or not, right now in this country liberals are the ones advocating more federal government interference than conservatives. And yes, I do want turbo christians to stay the hell out of my life just as much as I want the damn government out of my life.
And reddwarf, i am sure you never made a typo, right?
When Al Queda comes to cut his throat he may reconsider.... Or maybe he is a muslim already? Hmmmm...... Obvious left Democratic material. Did GW steal the election or what (can you say sore LOOSER) Or maybe just looser... More tired liberal tedium!
Al Queda just around the corner ready to slit his throat at the closet opportunity? Must be a Muslim because he criticises his government? Americans are just sore losers because their electoral system resembles Swiss cheese? C'mon mate, you sound like a cliche. Back to the 50's.
yes i hate erica to she gave me the cla.................oh you hate America,oooohhh ahaaaaaaaaa, i see the differance.... yaaa america ... no, nope sorry cant help you out.
as he stubs out his clove and kicks at the poodel that scampers between his legs spilling his caffe latte .yelling as he does YOU STUPIT AMERICANS IATE CHU ALLLLL.....
Flagg, I used to simply read your posts based on my love for Stephen King. Now, I just read them cause they are guaranteed to make milk shoot out of my nose ;-)
WOW the liberalism is extreme and if you do not like this country then get the hell out. Yes, I am a patriot and I fought for your rights to be an ass.
G.K. Chesterton: "My country, right or wrong" is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying "My mother, drunk or sober."
I feel sorry for you soldier. What exactly did you fight for? Where did you fight? You might try a different line like "if you don't like this country then change it..." that's more the American Way that we ALL fight for. Whether the fight is over-seas or at home it's still a fight.
Lastly... soldier boy... do you enjoy being a tool of the elite ruling class that runs this country? Do you really believe all that stuff the military tells you?
What did you learn over-seas? Have you ever killed someone face to face, looked them in the eye and took their life? Was he a father, brother, son just like you? What was his life like? What was he fighting for?
You should read up a little on why we really fight.
Herman Goering: "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
WOW! - Very very good. This shows how nothing really changes. But maybe, just maybe, this internet, this new democracy of thought will begin the change. We have to have some hope.
Just makes you think and understand that sometimes we cant prevent all occurance's of things to come..No one saw it put we have people dieing because of actions of others...but without war we would not be MEN and sometimes that is the outcome of a country as we are..Peace is what we say we fight for but there is always a selfish reason behind it
Liberal misinformation and propaganda.
Some of these "signs" of facsism are pretty shaky.
Flags everywhere? WOW!!!
So how much disdain do we have as a nation for human rights? The example he shows is the Abu Gharab prison, where the perpetrators were tried in court and found guilty. NOBODY LOOKED THE OTHER WAY!!!
I could go on and on...
People have to be REAL desparate to make comparisons between the USA and Nazi Germany. WHY DO THEY DO SUCH THINGS??? What is the political agenda behind this liberal misinformation?
I disagree with atributing this sort of disinformation and hate propaganda to liberals. I don't know any liberals who would in any way support this sort of thing. That's not to say I don't know people who would agree with this sort of attack propaganda, just that they're not liberals. Liberals by definition are open minded and tolerant, as are most pious religions. So the question is, who benefits by defaming, liberals, moderate conservatives, and all religions?
Why do they do such things? Because once again Americans find them selves at war in another country. Their own troops slowly dropping. Even when not at war they are told of enemies they must fight ideologically. The military budget never goes down - only up. Who's making the bucks? America with all its might could be seen as a powerful, benevolent peacemaker but for its actions which portray it as a school yard bully. There will be those "patriots" who will say "right on" to these tactics, believing that to strut is to intimidate and thus avoid conflict. But Americans are now waking up to the fact that this behaviour only invites it.
"What is the political agenda behind this liberal misinformation?"
Ask yourself if you have already been manipulated into either the "Liberals are ruining the country group", or the "Conservatives are ruining..." group.
"We the people of these United States" will determine the future of this nation, not the corporate plutocracy. This video is over the top at this point, but will it be over the top in 2010? It is the common sense center of America that will save us from the manipulation to extremes. GWB and his wealthy friends are Dividers (Divide and conquer).
Let's get together as a people, and stop bending to the propaganda of the wealthy elite, join together and set a course for a brighter future, for ourselves and our children.
The filmmaker may be a fearful citizen. Not a "Liberal", or a "Conservative", or some Other scapegoat. Maybe, this was just to remind us that it can happen here too. The future guarantees nothing, but change, but what will that future be?
fascism and corporate rule of a government and country are the natural result of unbounded and un-regulated capitalism with no accountability to the people who run the corporations. I love capitalism, I'm a capitalist myself... but, we still need a certain amount of accountability and integrity in the gov'tment and among individuals... neither of which we have much of right now. Sad.
Agreed. Capitalism is the only way, but you have to have some sort of regulations and consequences to those who control the companies. Obscure kind of point, but look at "Lord of the Flies" — people aren't basically good; they are forced to be good by society's restrictions. So put some restrictions on them, for god's sake, and we'll see a little bit more "honesty" and "integrity"...
And then we can all rejoice in a non-fascist society...
No, wait, we'll still be nationalistic — if waving a flag is considered patriotism that's gone too far. (Hey, let's burn the flags, that will solve it!)
if you ain't Canadian then you suck? isn't that right Billy? Fuck balls, miter, douche, randall, throb, devious, wolf, and the rest of you yank bastards.
For all of you about to condemn this statement, look CAREFULLY at the sender. Not Canuck1963 but Canock 1963. Nice try there Mr. waste-o-space. Back to your lonely cubicle with your left hand for company.
Canuck, Randal, Mako, Pod and all the non-fucking-psycho-freaks on the site. I have had enough of the bullshit passed around by the low life contingent here. Used to be enjoyable to debate and just pass the time but the scum have taken over. I'm done. You can have the site ALL TO YOUR USELESS SELVES. Sit around and talk like big men with small dicks all you want. Soon you'll end up with what you started with......loneliness. So in closing, lick my balls and rot in hell.
How the hell did I get into this post stream? So I'm a yank bastard? lol you know nothing scumtard, you aren't even witty like the one's you try to imitate, from me to you asshole, fuckoff and pop yourself so you die slow (use a small caliber just above and back of the temple) you'll look so silly squirming around and gurgling on the floor ha ha ha I can picture you now..oh yah I've seen the future (ok I feel better know)
(Lookit the name above that started this thread, that got you so worked up...ahhh...it ain't me...lol.....sorry, but that's all some folks got to work with.)
Wow! Don't think I've seen Billy this upset before. Sounds like he's quitting Glumbert. That's ok, he'll go through withdrawls and be back in a few days.
If you need Billy, I can research and maybe get you set-up in a local chapter of Glumbert's Anonymous.
It just shows that he's got integrity, and he's a decent man.
You HAVE heard of those traits...haven't you?
"Decency"? "Integrity"?
Of course, SOME intellectually-inferior pukes around here, seem to think that those qualities are free to get tossed aside, just because they're at a keyboard and on whatever-website; although personally, I don't think they had those traits to begin with.
C -Ya know I was feeling like Bill yesterday too. Maybe there was something in the air.
I was ranting at my boss about how screwed up the country is with all the crap that is going on, and how all that crap has finally started to reach me, and screw up my life, and is screwing up the lives of a lot of good hard working people I know... etc.
I was really ranting away. But I think the cause was this:
When we discuss these important issues with clarity and real heart it begins to affect us. And, maybe like me he has not slept for three days because it is hot and, maybe his Air Conditioner died too. But I think he has to get away for a while do some fishing.
FUCK POLITICS ALL YOUR POLITICS OR ANYONE INVOLOVING POLITICS HAS OFFICALLY SUCKED MY PHAT AND FAT HORRENDOUS FILTHY HAIRY STD INFECTED OOOZY GREEN COCK
You have such an admirable command of the english language...so well spoken...glib, but not too sharp, poignant, and so perfectly expressed...it must be difficult to manage the adulation you garner as a result of this incredible skill. Would that you only held the intelligence of the bug that seems to have crawled up your anus...perhaps you might then be understandable at some primordial level.
1. power and continuing nationalism.
(isn't that pariotism? even liberals consider themselves patriots... uh, right?)
2.disdain for the recognition of human rights.
(i agree with this one... americans should stop humiliating prisoners of war by forcing them to pose for pictures depicting what the enemies see as the lowest of low... homosexuals. instead we should employ their humane methods of decapitation and torture.)
3.identifying enemies or scapegoats as a unifying cause.
(hmmm... kinda like what this poorly made leftist propaganda video is attempting to do?)
4.supremacy of the military.
(funny one, this... i guess we would have been better off fighting hitler with an untrained, undersupplied army. maybe our navy and marines should have used single shot muskets against the imperialist japanese, or the fascist italians of wwll. i guess we could avoid criticism by using 19th century weapons against terrorists. we should be ashamed!)
5. rampant sexism.
(last i heard, hilary clinton was a leading candidate for the presidency. AND SHE VOTED FOR THIS WAR!)
6.controlled mass media.
(i'm sick of bush and cheney pushing their weight around and forcing the media to story after story depicting them as bumbling hillbillies with the lowest approval ratings since jimmy carter.)
7. obsession with national security.
(14 million illegal immigrants! enough said.)
8.religion and government are intertwined.
(according to this rule, hitler and stalin were not fascists. they both banned religion from all government functions and facilities. wimpy dictators!)
9. corporate power protected.
(corporations provide labor. protect the giver, you, in turn protect the receiver. kinda common sense, i thought.)
10. labor power is suppressed.
(see above... and don't forget, we have the largest, most powerful labor unions in the world. all payed for by the workers.)
11. disdain for intellectuals and the arts.
(who are the intellectuals? bush graduated from yale. what do you mean by the arts? this country boast the largest music and movie industries in the world. by the way, hitler loses fascist points here, too. he was an artist!)
12. obsession with crime and punishment.
(yeah, only fascists want to convict murderers, rapists, robbery suspects, child molestors etc... mean, mean fascists!)
13.rampant cronyism and corruption.
(you mean, kinda like the foster MURDER during the clinton administration? you mean the bombing raids in the middle east after the monica lewinski scandal? i agree with this one.)
14. fraudulent elections.
(i did NOT vote for bush. i think bush is the worst president this country has ever had. but if liberals can't figure out how to punch the right hole in the voting ballot, IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!)
I agree with you to a certain degree, videocritic. But I think you will find that in today's world, you can define any "nation" or "administration" as such. In any time of "war" (I'm using this term lightly) you will find that people rally around the flag and nationalist tendencies become augmented.
C-
Sorry you had to see those folks. The do not nor have not ever been representative of any majority in America.
Ironic-you can't wait for them to get marginalized for good...that's exactly what they think of you.
It's a very pertinent question. You clearly are quick to stereotype those that you cannot identify with, and thus they must be inferior. The truth be known is that you have the inferiority complex in the real world so you mitigate those feelings by transgressing into a persona on the internet which is not that of your true identity. You are tired of getting sand kicked in your face in life, so you TRY to do it to others on the virtual world.
BTW, That was you me and my cousins, brothers, and uncles scared away?
Me? I "stereotyped"? I have an "inferiority complex"? Ummm....riiiiight.
'Scuse me, while I go back through the last gazillion posts, where YOU and a small like-minded few, have done nothing but level broadsides at another nation altogether, as well as "stereotyping" the whole lot who live in it.
And going back to my original point, what do we have HERE?
Why, bless my whatever-passes-for-a-soul!!
It's Mr. I.M.A. Douchebag, Esq., defending (!) these folks, by saying I'm "stereotyping" them! Nice.
Seems I'm a little more correct about YOU, than vice-versa.
The whole point is that you try to tap-dance just about everything, and try to reverse everything to shift the focus off yourself. Some may think your good at the smoke in mirrors game, but we were not talking about me sterotyping it was you. You can't simply answer one simple question, and you still haven't.
Go ahead and say I do the same. Blah blah blah. I will not deny it, however you can't admit it.
What exactly did I "tap dance" around? Did you fall down and hit your head today?? You admitted you're a stereotyping bigot. Good. It's a start. Maybe we'll be able to get somewhere now. Now what was it I'M supposed to admit?? You better rephrase your so-called "question", because the way you typed it above, made absolutely NO sense at all.
"Smoke and mirrors"??? LOLLOLOL
Jeeeeeezus.
Not really sure what kind of issue you're trying to create here, but I'll try to keep up. But I gotta tell ya...you're givin' me vertigo.
A simple yes or no would have sufficed, but you are such a bonehead you can't even do that. Don't even attempt to answer the question because your ramblings speak for themselves.
How does not denying something translate into admitting it? If I tried to deny it you would have a beknighted response. So please let out your "intellectual" disdain and share with the rest of us. I can't wait to hear this.
(The problem with advertising - The mind control debate begins.) I am going to rant here please be patient.
In America we are subjected to the most sophisticated advertising in history. It continues to escalate in complexity, and vigor, as the entities who have something to gain try to dig ever deeper into our minds.
The sad truth is that advertising works, and it works very well at controlling us. We all think we are immune, but we are not. It does effect our thinking, in just about everything. The corporations, PACs, and governments know this, and use it.
Why does America have problems with Obesity, Education, Health Care, Drugs, Energy, etc.
Example: Drugs. Every day Pharma continues to advertise drugs that are only available by prescription! Why would they do this? We cannot just go buy these drugs OTC. Why does the FDA allow this? Why does the FDA fast track new drugs? Why does the news media softball Pharma on the real issues. Why does congress blather about pharma, and yet they do nothing. What is the answer to obesity? Well what do you know a new drug on the fast track, being advertised in a breaking story presented as NEWS, and around it goes.
What is the connection between Government, Media, and Corporations? ( ? )
The wealthy elite have us right where they want us. Controlled on all fronts and thinking just what they want us to think. Is there anyone in power at any point that matters, that is not at least a millionaire? They move from their privileged childhood, to their privileged schools, to their privileged jobs, and have their privileged children. Now repeat, and make certain none of the peasants interfere with the whole damn thing.
Where do we peasants begin to have some effect on the system. 1) Do everything we can to keep the rich from getting any richer. 2) True representatives of the people should not be millionaires. 3) Promote and support small businesses in your town. 4) When watching a commercial (STOP) and ask why am I being told this, who is saying it, and where is the profit. 5) Shrink the useless government.
pod very good queston im gonna answer it as soon as wolf down these three cheesburgers with ham and bacon i have eat quick my dope dealer on his way over.and that ulcer is back, but im to tired to do any thing about.
oh yes i forgot....derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... lol
If a couple fights had gone the 'other' way George Washington would have been hung by his king.
My point? America was based on questioning thier Rulers and changing things to, what they concidered, better. Now it seems, to me at least, that questioning the leaders of that same nation is concidered, unpatriotic(sp?).
I'm NOT going to bash the USof A, they have LOTS to brag about, and the VAST majority of their population are normal people, just like the rest of the world.
I am going to mention that ANY country that cannot question their leaders openly, is on a slippery slope. And worse, any country that allows the people to question the leaders and then the people DON'T EVEN BOTHER, is just askin' for trouble.
My only bitch about this whole thing is NON-Americans 'bashing' and 'bad-mouthing' the USA.... American should be, and encouraged to, question THIER leaders and change what they want to, to BETTER AMERICA FOR AMERICANS!! Unless your country is directly being oppressed by Uncle Sam, shut UP and fix your own COUNTRY first.
It's time for the planet to "Clean up your own backyards, before you go knocking on your neighbours door." If you don't like the USA, don't buy thier stuff, don't watch thier shows, don't help their economy in ANY way.
And as a CANADIAN!! I know MY country could use some 'reformatting' long before we get on a soapbox and try telling other nations how to live.
(please note I am aware that I can't spell, I'm a talker not a typer)
Good points-
However, is there someone suppressing the questioning of our leadership and/or discouraging the questioning? I am not aware of any such danger down here.
The death to the anti-war protestors banner shown in the video might be a bit of a suppression. The Dixie Chicks banner, and the flak they took might be another example. It is not the Stasi bursting into your home in the middle of the night and I think the video is exaggerating the situation, but it is a worrisome trend that Americans try to stifle dissent by labelling people as unpatriotic.
pipedog loved your comment agreed with most all of it.
i have the utmost respect for George Washington, a bright spot for my country and its short history i believe as you had said if things went a little differnt he may have hung.
but not by HIS king. he had NO king . Washinton for a long period was a man with out a country so there for he had no king. like many of his friends and colleagues he also made a choice and he chose well. as providence was with him.
i say this only because i have read so much about the man and i felt i owed him that. LOL
podman, i appreciate you going to and producing info straight from the source (credible media, which by the way, helps to illustrate my point that the current administration does not control mass media) however, nothing in any of your links disproves anything i laid out.
i refuse to sink to your level by resorting to juvenile rants and leave you with this advise...
As I stated in previous links I think it is to easy for power to force us via some prejudice or fear to blame every problem on a scapegoat, as a means of avoiding a real conversation about real issues.
My links and my rant were 'Engineered' by me to answer a specific question I had about the American public. Yes - I was a little test. Are we all just regurgitating what we are told, so that we do not have to take on the REAL burden of individualized thought.
If Americans cannot speak anonymously to power, and perhaps the real issue of a declining freedom, then where are we?
Only Pipedog spoke with courage to the focal point of my issue. No rancorous spew about "conservative", "Liberal", "Gay", "TWATS", etc scape goats. Anybody can reiterate with complete lack of courage the points that the power base allows, and encourages. Like a dog in a pack, it takes no courage to back a system with which you agree.
It takes real courage to speak truth to power, and if you cannot see it, or try it, then we are not really free. I wanted to move the conversation about the problems in America to the forefront so that they have a chance to be solved. If you are going to continue to blame every problem on the liberals or the conservatives or the sanctioned magic scapegoats then nothing will be accomplished.
I want America to solve the very important problems that we have. Is it American to want improvement for our Education, Health, Infrastructure, etc, or does that make me a Terrorist?
But I'm just a juvenile TWAT that will hopefully be silenced by rancorous rhetoric, and not civil discourse. Thats the American way right?
"All it takes for evil to flourish, is for good men to do nothing" - Edmond Burke
I've just observed a small % of folks in the USA ,that enjoy 'shouting down' , any and all negative comments/opinions concerning the ruling class. I've also noticed that this small % gets a LARGE amount of 'face time' with the media, this combo could, and I think does, discurage some people from voiceing thier opinion.
Up here , I think, our biggest problem is apathy. This could be our downfall....
but... what to heck do i know...really... opinions are like assholes,everybodys got one.
Wow! Pipedog you are the only one so far that has spoken directly to my point. For some reason you are aware that the worst thing that a society can have is a government approved opinion, and no others.
Interesting- I feel like the shouting is done by the anti-Bush crowd. Rabid shouting. Where do you see/hear the shouting down? The MoveOn and Kos crowd seem to be the shouters. (I don't own a TV so I have to read and listen to the radio.)
Anytime material needs are met, apathy follows.
Exactly: "Anytime material needs are met, apathy follows." I am just afraid of what inevitably follows that.
Wow! Stream, I think we may have found a point of agreement here. And you know what I am trying to say about useless rhetoric being used to control the masses, correct?
I don't think anyone with a brain agrees with this video, but we can discuss the underlying point to which it speaks.
Streamlined, you state part of the truth, it is the same way about being racist against Whites. It's perfectly allowed, but if any thing is said about a black - then it seems that it can be shot down.
I am not quite sure about this video.
Rampant Sexism - No Control of Media - No
And others that I really am too tired to go into. However, some of these people really are spouting off nonsense conspiricies against the Bush administration. He did some stupid things, true, he did some dumb things as well. But contrary to popular belief, he couldn't have done it without Congress. He could not have done it without a lot of things.
That said, everyone knows that the only reason that the Republicans still have power is because the Democrats are more disfunctional than the Republicans are 'facists'.
Agreed. I think many who have really thought out the issues facing America will kinda agree that if either Kerry, or Bush were running the country the result would be the same. What I'm trying to say, (and only pipedog hears) is that we have a system that uses partisan politics and other types of control to get what THEY want and not what WE want.
If I am alone in think this, then there really in no hope to go on. Is it wrong to want to create a better America for myself and my children, without the partisan bickering, and prejudice? Or does my kind of thinking just continue to be shouted down like Weimar Republic in the Reichstat.
P-I agree with much of what you are saying, but everywhere you put the word "power", I would put the word "influence". My government exerts very little power over my daily choices and the media do the same...no real power. But, great influence.
It is not wrong want to create a better America...but, what if you and I disagree about what a better America constitutes? What if I agree with certain directions our government takes, but not others? There is no courage or lack of to take a position that has no consequence to the self...it, I believe, is human nature.
"Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest."
Well put and a good observation about the term "power". I agree influence is more accurate. But with what they have done to my industry, it feels more like power, because I had no choice but to accept it, and the demise of what I love to do.
So true!: "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest."
Stream- Oops forgot to answer the second part of your reply. We as you said about democracy. Democracy is all we have to set what the majority will accept. That leaves the others with a certain amount of tolerance, where the greater good is required. Of course this works both ways depending on the issue being enforced.
It is not a perfect system, but it is the best so far.
I guess you an I are among the few Americans who know this. Every time I bring up the fact that we are a republic thing in a discussion I get the puzzled looks. You know the ones. What you saying looks. Then I have to explain the whole thing. It is best not to bring it up for that very reason.
i never saw the Republic statment. i totaly understand the differance and yes i agree we live and for some exist in a republic verging betwixt that and Imperialism .
One comment from the Scat Squad. We thank Podman and Streamline for doing our work for us...keeping the conservation congenial, lively and actually edifying. Worth a read. But notice Tweedles-Dumb and Dumber from Canada are no where to be found once it gets past calling a spade a f***ing shovel, or a West Virginian a human? Incidentally, on facsism there was a great quote from a Bolshevik apologist in the 1930s, when Hitler was only coming up. Maurice HIndus, The Great Offensive. He called Facsists "middle class socialists", which still defines them by type much better than post-war dictionary definitions. Although some Republicans may be racing to catch up, that term still more closely defines the Al Gore-Clinton-John Kerry branch of American politics. Keep it brisk , Gentlemen. Cheers
Let me get this straight, if I comment, you get pissed, I can understand that. So now you're mad because I DIDN'T comment. Man, you can't win around here.
pod you have a lot of good things to say (of course it's my opinion).
I do think this thing "the internet" which is about transfer of info, not shopping is one tool that can and already does allow the free exchange of ideas and debates among "peasants".
I agree that apathy and advertising are huge problems.
There are lots and lots of issues, problems etc... with our society, government etc...
old and tired perhaps,, but true nonetheless. we (America) exspaned its own borders with force by our military having no provocation other then Manifest Destiny and that is the applicable definition or better yet an example of the (cliche and tired) word imperialism .
many words and phrases used today by you .....and myself can be considerd by one person or another cliche and tired , but that does not negate thier worth.
in truth the phrase cliche and tired is.........well ... cliche and tired. and is not a valid responce to my statement. its more a thing a politition would say. (ouch):o. sorry for the low blow lol. :)
RF-Manifest Destiny...last time it was applied...mid to late 1800's. Even then, wasn't imperialism. Nothing we are doing now is imperialistic. Please give an example.
stream Certainly it was ! it was Monroe's answer to increase Americas chance to gain wealth and size without looking Napoleonic. (Grants memoirs)
and later make way for the massive land grab in soutwest america (old Mexico) . unapproved acquisition of santa fe, through a force of arms by a rogue frontiersmen and several hundred dragoons and held as spoils ( at the time of a war that wasnt or hadnt even started) and all this unbeknownst to congress.
acting on direct orders from the president (Polk) in a domino effect affecting the territories of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and last, but not last California.
(imperialism) by definition- a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy and or military force. i.e China Iran Mexico Alaska Cuba Vietnam Hawaii Nicaragua Puerto Rico Iraq Guam philippines
these country's all fall under the definition in one manner or the other.
RF-You are incorrect in your definition of imperialism. I have looked all over the place for imperialism being defined as "influence" in other countries' affairs. It is the acquisition of other countries, nations, territories, etc...not inflencing them. If you don't take over them or try to take over them, it ain't imperialism.
noun 1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies
Ahhh! I like it better over here. That whole Lord of the files thing in the Mr. Giggles post is very upsetting.
Stream, I agree with R, that we had out imperialistic periods as well. All new nations go through this. It could 'perhaps' be prevented by a pure democracy, but I think a republic is less likely to constrain such actions because the power is concentrated in the representatives.
Streamlined - I'm intrigued on your position that you DON'T believe the US is currently transitting an imperialist phase...? Why do you not see the evidence for this and where have you been looking?
It's good that you don't watch TV (I think I saw this in one of you earlier posts - forgive me if wrong) but this begs the question where you DO find your information from, and to what extent do you believe this information to be factual and unbiased?
I'm afraid I disagree that you feel the US is not acting in an Imperial manner currently (and indeed effectively since the the end of WW2 if we look at the degree to which the US military exerts influence globally in over 120 somthing countries)
As for cultural imperialism - there is NO arguement there surely? US culture whether liked or not has spread globally too, and far more successfully than others have in the same time period. The issue now is probably that a backlash seems to be gaining a degree of momentum what with globalization being recognised primarily as a 'US' driven concept...
Please respond on this Streamy, it's kinda important that you be made aware of what imperialism is, especially if you feel the US is NOT acting this way... Randall's right here...
If there were a glumbert 100 years ago what would we be debating now?
The year 1907: Ideas on Immigrants and being an American.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt 1907
I think I would be complaining about my $1.00/hr (guessing here) salary, and reading how the 'Indian problem' is now finally over. Just think of the changes a 100 years make.
Good to hear from Mako again. Missed you.
USA is not acting imperialist because we are not trying to take over, force assimilation, etc. The American left has for years said that we are acting in an imperialistic manner. In fact, it is a foregone conclusion in leftist circles...but, with no real grounds. (Imperialist is one ofthose words that resonates with people because it conjures images of Darth Vader, Renaissance England, peasants, kings, etc) There were those who opposed our actions in WW2 for that very reason. Yet, we have not taken over any of these countries that we were supposedly "imperializing".
Many may disagree with USA's actions, including myself, but to do so on imperialist grounds is absurd.
Ok Streamlined - You appear to be hiding behind a desire to discuss the definition of Imperialism, rather than acknowledging that what is taking place is much the same thing, however you wish to define it...
Whether you're talking Roman Empire, or come to that, British Empire Imperialism there seem to me to be a couple of paths common to both Empires which the US can justifiably be accused of following, namely:
1. Military outposts in many parts of the world which in some cases are, and in others are not welcomed - currently how may countries with US bases did I say before? 120 plus? Indisputable surely?
2. The placement or attempted placement within other countries of people as heads of state (or whatever nomenclature you wish to give them), whom the US administration believes to be friendly to their own needs - any number of attempted CIA backed coups or other attempts at installing US friendly regimes into states which may not have wanted them - Iran anyone? Cuba? Iraq? To name but the obvious ones...
Now, whether we're talking influence, domination, whatever... The fact remains, Imperialism is the closest word we currently have to what it is that the US Administration seems to be doing. Period.
You mention extending a nation's authority by forceful acquisition of territory - you say the US has not done this...fair enough I'm not gonna bang my head on a wall over it, surely the current Iraq conflict IS a case in point though? Surely the Bay of Pigs was in essence the begining of an attempt right?
What about the concept of hegemony? Why haven't you brought this one up as it may be more in the area you're wishing to sell the US as being...
This effectively suggests dominance of the US over other countries through coersion and ultimately through subordination by these other countries to that coersion. WITH OR WITHOUT the threat of force. And this is crucial... the force issue.
I posit this - Maybe, just maybe, the US is using this force and wheeling it around a little too frequently so that the world is becoming uneasy and starts bandying the Imperialist terminology around... Is that fair? (forget Afghanistan in this context as you certainly have allies there..., but Iraq for example, and a possible focus on Iran next... worrying don't you think?)
That there is social and economic Imperialism is surely not in despute? The difference being people aren't dying. All that will happen in these cases will be a natural maintainance or erosion of that power over time depending upon what the people under it's control want to buy, wear, watch etc...
With the social and economic Imperialism there're no 'kinetics' going on - a lovely term I recently heard used to describe what some of the US forces in Africa Command (yes AFRICA Command - bet you hadn't heard of that one!) are currently doing to the guys who make the US blacklist of soon to be dead people.
You are a patriot Streamlined, of that I have no doubt. But don't become blinded by it. Believe me, if you're on the inside looking out, you are getting a very different message than if you're on the outside looking in.
Chummin - you set remarkably low standards and then, remarkably again, consistently fail to achieve them.
Keep it up fuckwit - no self respecting shark will go near the bullshit you spill into Glumbert waters
Streamlined, You might want to review your earlier "debates" with Mako before wasting too much time on trying to explain imperialism, unless, of course, you have a broader audience in mind.
Mako seems to think he has an automatic copyrighting machine, so he can write his own definition for a term before he ever uses it. We noticed that from him the past, and as you know, that makes honest debate impossible. I would feel much more comfortable if YOU taught HIM the meaning of imperialism, for I am quite sure than 1) any definition he uses is not in accepted use, even in Canada, and if he could come up with one that was 2) then he would have to create a series of "facts" along the order of Bush lied, and he knows what's in other men's hearts, i.e, facts that aren't facts to prove the US guilty of imperialism. Then you'd have to show him out to be a liar as you did Tweedle-Dumb some days ago. Being unrepentent anti-imperialists, even having laid down many of our own lives against it, which, if memory serves, Mako is unwilling to do for any body or any thing. my guess Mako hasn't a clue as to what Imperialism is, other than a word that shows up over and over again in talking points he reads elsewhere. Cheers, Scatman
Here's what I put for RF above...and for the same reasons:
RF-You are incorrect in your definition of imperialism. I have looked all over the place for imperialism being defined as "influence" in other countries' affairs. It is the acquisition of other countries, nations, territories, etc...not inflencing them. If you don't take over them or try to take over them, it ain't imperialism.
noun 1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies
Stream... you're correct in your definition of imperialism... but, just because we aren't doing it the same way the definition says doesn't mean we're not doing it. Now we try to do it a little more subtley, by buying governments or over-throwing them and putting in place heads of state of our choosing. It's to the same end.
Stream- Remind the Wolf that France, not America, still has colonies in Africa, and controls them totally thru the currency and central Bank in Paris. The CFA. Russia still has colonies in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukbekhistan, et al. England still has colonies, last war I checked, in Canada, as well as the Caribbean. To keep peace with the United Nations, itself a bunch of pirates, they just go by another name.
America has interests, she has no colonies. The ones we used to have we tried to give up..but damn, they just didn't want to go. Poll the Philippines today and 35% would still say they'd like to go back to the days of the Commonwealth (pre-1941)...sort of like Canada today. American conquered Germany than gave it back. She conquered Japan, then gave it back. The list goes on. We even conquered Toronto (York) for a whole day or two...then gave it back. What gives here? Remind your friends that just because someone wrote a book about imperialism doesn't mean he knows a thing about it. I haven't read Kennedy, we'll get on it. Question is, would Kennedy be considered an expert witness in a court if the issue simply was" Define IMperialism"?. Would his evidence get into court? Dunno. Cheers, Scatman
Or are you one of our regular retards who picked up an alias?
'Cuz I gotta tell ya, you sound like a complete and utter moron. Only YOU could take this nutty-flag waving crusade, and go completely off into the Twilight Zone with it. You keep harping about how the world "owes" the U.S. something, or about how the U.S. is "superior" in every, way, shape or form, or you even take a simple anecdote I shared on this thread because I felt it relates to the clip, and even managed to turn THAT into something it's not. You absolutely NO clue as to world affairs, and even less about the mechanisms of the U.N. Well, my son, I'm gonna pop your little bubble here, and give you some FACTS, ok?:
1. This puny little "anti-Canadian" bigotry you (and those rabidly LIKE you) repeatedly demonstrate, shows only how insular and close-minded you really are. Canada is a "colony"? We WERE (as YOU were), but you say we still ARE? Fucking dumb. Question: why do folks like YOU insist on sucking Arab dick, whilst continually knocking your neighbour to the north? Got a reason for that? Has Canada set up some kind of slave labour camps in the U.S. I know nothing about? Have we been responsible for flying commercial airliners into any skyscrapers that I'm unaware of? Have we beheaded any Yanks in public executions lately? Do we make second-class creatures out of females? OH NO! WAIT! Those are YOUR SAUDI BUDDIES that do all those things....that's right. YOUR buddies. You make me sick, y'know that?
2. YOU are in the minority, re: the current way the U.S. being managed; whereas I share the camp with over 70% of YOUR population who see it another way. Suck it up, Rambo.
3. America's "got interests, but no colonies". Like, where the fuck do you think the whole notion of "blowback" comes from?? It's because of BUSINESS INTERESTS; you know, that's where the U.S. government a lot of times has knocked off a democratically-elected foreign government, and installed one in its place, that's more friendly to it's BUSINESS INTERESTS. Kinda WORSE that having an out-and-out "colony", ain't it?
3. You can go back through ANY of my posts...ANY of them...and not ONCE did I make any sweeping generalizations about the Amercian people, or the United States as a whole; rather, it has ALWAYS been against their idiotic President and Administration, as well as specific morons like YOU. And that's it. That's all. YOU, and YOUR nutty bunch, however, will not only do THAT, but go ten steps further, and slag whole nations and peoples and organizations. Why? Why izzat? Do you and your type feel THAT threatened? Are you THAT insecure? Why can't you stick to the ISSUES, Hoss? Huh?
4. Again, the stupidity taught by your schools shows through: You didn't "conquer" Toronto; you did the next best thing your that history SHOWS you do quite often: You went on a five-day raping, pillaging, burning and looting spree.....and then left. In retaliation, WE burned down the White House, sending the First Lady (Dolly Madison) fleeing into the night (she barely got, out ahead of our troops, all of whom then then sat down in the dining room, and had a nice supper....then torched the place). BTW, we occupied D.C. a lot longer then Uncle Sam was in Toronto, and would have stayed longer, if not for a hurricane system that moved in). Funny how you left out THAT part, huh? Tough to take, I know. Folks like YOU never like to talk about your nose bleeds. And please, don't even get me started on the genocidal policy against your natives, or even slavery, for that matter. And you "conquered" Japan and Germany?? Ahh, no. You NUKED Japan; you fire-bombed Germany into the stone age. And you did all of the ON YOUR OWN....right? No allied help...no nothing...right? Ohhhhh.....my fuckin' heros. I guess well ALL might as well pack our fuckin' bags, and let you have the planet to yourselves, according to YOU, huh? Listen, do NOT go to Europe with that attitude...you'll get whacked for sure.
(Apologies to my regular Yank friends/readers on Glumbert; I think if you look past my disgust, you'll see why I am responding the way I'm responding to this fuckhead.)
Last I checked 35% is a solid minority; and what about the hundred of thousands of Philippine peasants slaughtered by the US Army in a campaign of "Pacification"? Ignorance and arrogance seems to be a recurring theme here. And how come nobody has mentioned the music in this clip? It's the song from "Cabaret" sung in Fosse's movie by the Hitler Jungen.
well chummin....hmmmmm,, i guess if the Prosecution did not object the judge would allow him to proceed as a star witness. but the defence would then call in thier star witness. ....i guess?"
let me ask you, could they call you as a star witness being as how your so objective about most things posted.
now chummin are you not writing to any of us here directly,and you are communicating through stream ?
alas he may grow wearisome indeed having to carry your burdon.
C-Chummin is out of my league and I am sure have something to say. (I do appreciate it when you bullet-point your errors. Much easier to keep track.)
The whole idea that America is acting imperialist is just silly. Chummin pointed out episodes after wars that would have been good times to take over and we did not.
The larger point is the one I made earlier: there are no imperial grounds to disagree with America's actions. That does not mean that there aren't others. But shouting "Immperialism" undermines your credibility. Those who are trying to change the definition of imperialism to suit thier needs should find other words to disagree with US action around the world.
Canuck...again, try to stay in context: you always argue America's bad points, whether they are relevant or not. I don't blame you, but bringing up America's handling of Indians during the 1700-1800's is asinine and NOT RELEVANT. Do you know where you are from? French or English decent...either way, your record with the natives is hardly perfect.
And by the way, I never once used the term "imperialist" to describe the U.S. (although some might fins legitimacy in that).
My whole post was in response to Fatty Arbuckle up there, who seems to GO OUT OF HIS WAY to WANT TO earn the "imperialist" title.
Fuckin' guy sounds no different than old-style communists of the former Soviet Union, some of whom were just as brainwashed and ignorant as THIS mope sounds.
Ok Streamlined - You appear to be hiding behind a desire to discuss the definition of Imperialism, rather than acknowledging that what is taking place is much the same thing, however you wish to define it...
Whether you're talking Roman Empire, or come to that, British Empire Imperialism there seem to me to be a couple of paths common to both Empires which the US can justifiably be accused of following, namely:
1. Military outposts in many parts of the world which in some cases are, and in others are not welcomed - currently how may countries with US bases did I say before? 120 plus? Indisputable surely?
2. The placement or attempted placement within other countries of people as heads of state (or whatever nomenclature you wish to give them), whom the US administration believes to be friendly to their own needs - any number of attempted CIA backed coups or other attempts at installing US friendly regimes into states which may not have wanted them - Iran anyone? Cuba? Iraq? To name but the obvious ones...
Now, whether we're talking influence, domination, whatever... The fact remains, Imperialism is the closest word we currently have to what it is that the US Administration seems to be doing. Period.
You mention extending a nation's authority by forceful acquisition of territory - you say the US has not done this...fair enough I'm not gonna bang my head on a wall over it, surely the current Iraq conflict IS a case in point though? Surely the Bay of Pigs was in essence the begining of an attempt right?
What about the concept of hegemony? Why haven't you brought this one up as it may be more in the area you're wishing to sell the US as being...
This effectively suggests dominance of the US over other countries through coersion and ultimately through subordination by these other countries to that coersion. WITH OR WITHOUT the threat of force. And this is crucial... the force issue.
I posit this - Maybe, just maybe, the US is using this force and wheeling it around a little too frequently so that the world is becoming uneasy and starts bandying the Imperialist terminology around... Is that fair? (forget Afghanistan in this context as you certainly have allies there..., but Iraq for example, and a possible focus on Iran next... worrying don't you think?)
That there is social and economic Imperialism is surely not in despute? The difference being people aren't dying. All that will happen in these cases will be a natural maintainance or erosion of that power over time depending upon what the people under it's control want to buy, wear, watch etc...
With the social and economic Imperialism there're no 'kinetics' going on - a lovely term I recently heard used to describe what some of the US forces in Africa Command (yes AFRICA Command - bet you hadn't heard of that one!) are currently doing to the guys who make the US blacklist of soon to be dead people.
These are views a lot of the people in thE rest of the world have Streamlined. If you haven't heard them, don't hear them, or worse still won't hear them, then does that make these views in way less valid or incorrect?
You are a patriot Streamlined, of that I have no doubt. But don't become blinded by it. Believe me, if you're on the inside looking out, you are getting a very different message than if you're on the outside looking in.
That is not the same as being "drunk" at the time (living the pure lifestyle as your Dieity commands, I'm sure you wouldn't be aware of such things, or the differences therein).
And, uhhh, no Mr. Falwell----- your little flag-waving racist/bigot buddy didn't "correct" anything or anyone.
He was merely put in his place.
Like many of his "ilk" usually are (and quite easily so).
I enjoy your arrogance, C. It really is my favorite part. It's why I just can't say "no" to you.
A. What did he say that was racist?
B. Is flag-waving a bad thing?
C. Are you really the one to assert bigotry?
I don't know yet, but I may be of his ilk and have not been put in my place.
You have actually forced me to concede at least ONE point to you (seriously), and ya know what that is? It's the fact that in ALL of the exchanges you and I have had, you never ONCE slagged Canada or Canadians as a whole; not once. Oh sure, you had your fair share of pot-shots at me, as I have had with YOU...but that's fair game, least the way I see it. And that has come as somewhat of an unexpected surprise with you. Governments and foreign policies of said governments (ANY governments) are fair game, and I'm open to that. The average Joes and Janes are never a target. So I'll give you that one. But, c'mon, man; don't be so obtuse. Go back, and read over this idiots posts and comments; I mean even YOU can see he's not clearly all there, can't you? Is flag-waving a bad thing? On it's own....of course not. But as I've told you MANY times before, "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." When that sense of "flag-waving" is done to the point where one feels it justifies them to demean, belittle or otherwise assume a posture of superiority over others...then something is very seriously wrong. IS there such a thing as "healthy patriotism" down there? Or "fanatical patriotism"? Think about that one. Currently, the 70% of Americans who hate GWB's guts are having a bout of "healthy patriotism", or so I believe.
And considering that his stupid, bigoted comments comments were (at times) directed at ME, and at other times my nation and its folks as a whole...then yes...I would say that I'm prefectly the one to assert the "bigotry" here (kind of like when you ask an African-American what he/she thinks of folks who flutter and wave the Confederate Battle Flag; except in THIS case, this puke is using the AMERICAN flag to that end).
Now, after all of that, if YOU want to say he is of the same "ilk" as you, then okiee-dokiee. Show me your friends, and I'll show you.....you. And who knows? Maybe it IS you, and you've decided to go the "alias" route, like many of the other tools around here; who knows? Either way, it still amounts to the same thing: they're stupid, nonsensical comments, that are based in sheer stupidity and flag-fluttering delusion. It's that simple.
P.S.
You KNOW you can never say "no" to me...I'm just to much of a lively draw.
C- I read where Chummin is trying to get yours and Mako's goats...not bigotry. But, he can defend his words. I just don't see open bigotry. (Like any countrymen, hackles flare when someone from another country waxes morality about the other's country. You can understand that? Maybe he is just playing the game.)
Healthy patriotism and fanatic patriotism would certainly be in the eye of the beholder. (There are actually people down here trying to redefine patriotism to include surrendering in an active war.) 70% disaproval is not 70% hates his guts. There are those who can disagree and not hate the man...the American left is not among them.
You know what I was referring when I suggested you may not be the one to cry "Bigot!" It was not his remarks that I really questioned, just your authority to question them.
Show me your friends...giving weight to my belief that your opinions and beliefs are important to you insofar as they are lauded by others. I don't care if I have supporters here. Deconstructing your arguments are their own rewards and do not need the approval of others. You keep citing popularity as something important.
"(Like any countrymen, hackles flare when someone from another country waxes morality about the other's country. You can understand that? Maybe he is just playing the game.)"
Is that right? Well, maybe you can explain to me then, why some idiots (like the dweeb above) CANNOT separate criticism or critique of their GOVERNMENT, or the POLICIES of said GOVERNMENT, from the citizens or country as a whole? You wanna knock my GOVERNMENT, and list all of its shortcomings? Fair game. Depending on what one says, I may even be inclined to chime in and agree with what's said. The last thing I'D do, is label someone as "anti-Canadian" because of it. But when you knock the country as a WHOLE, and stereotype the whole damn population...then that's another story. It goes back to something I said many, many times: if I say Bush is an asshole....does that make me "anti-American", or "anti-U.S."? Maybe ignorant turds like this hickster should think about that one.
"logical errors"???
Okay.
Karl Rove just resigned, to avoid testifying before Congress under oath.
I guess this is what happens when "flag-waving" goes haywire, huh? Like I've ALREADY said above, once this kind of nonsense goes into the "fanatical" level, then it all goes to pot. And remember what I told you in the other thread about when police are are obliged to act on any complaint/accusation? And you said "no"? Well, here's a cut-and-paste from this story for you:
“We have jurisdiction throughout the whole county of Buncombe,” Sorrells said. “We have a citizen that complains to us about a violation of law, we’re bound by oath to act on it.”
Did you get that....FINALLY?
Christ, what's next with this Administration? Huh? Cops showing up at your own damn DOOR, wanting to issue you a "citation" because of how a FLAG is displayed??? Soldiers coming to your DOOR??? Like, what is this? Some kind of twisted friggin' gag????
Even the KKK ( officially designated as a "terrorist organization"), gets to have a permit and right (under the First Amendment) to have rallies and protests....yet cops come after someone over a FLAG????
KInda reminds me of a few countries around the mid-1930's, y'know?
Yikes! I only put my flag up correctly, but now I don't think I will put it up at all. Unless I get reported and hauled off for not putting it up. I'm confused.
Perhaps a official Office of Flag Propriety Statutes (the OOPS) could be established by Congress and enforced on a daily basis so that we should only do what is correct.
And for those who do not comply with the oops, they could be ordered to apply some symbol to their doors so that we would know who is in opposition to the oops.
well off to work but first... a few words from your sponcer. the topic started when i said i agreed that we were a republic (VERGING) on imperialism !!!!!!!!! and you asked for an example . i gave you plenty.. just look ABOVE we have headed , directed , sponsored ,financed a number of COUP'S!!!! we have also been responsible for the assassination for a few head of state. all public knowledge. but im sure you can twist that around to fit your idea of how you would like history to be. as opposed to how it actually was, or better yet the truth.
and you will not be going against the Bible . you would be agreeing with the Bible , the truth shall set you free.
well,,,,i urge you to look this up and not turn the blind eye to it .
RF- The point you are not getting, that is elementary...those were not acts of imperialism that you cited. Intrusions, necessary or unnecessary...NOT IMPERIALISM. Goodness...8th grade civics all over again.
Mako
Thank you for the evn-keeled response.
However, imperialism also has similarities to things we have done beyond what you mentioned...that does not make it imperialism. Why is this so very difficult? Imperialism needs a threshold, a line crossed to become so. By definition, that line is the taking over or colonization of another. Embassies, military bases, etc do not constitute that. (Whether I agree or disagree with past actions, covert or otherwise, is irrelevant to whether USA is imperialist in its nature. Encouraging and aiding US friendly regimes to rise in power is NOT IMPERIALISM. When you compare America's actions to Roman and British and French empires...well, you can't. There aren't any. No forced takeovers of nations...America is a lot of things, just not imperialist.)
I am sorry you are limited to misusing a word to describe USA's actions. I would suggest a thesaurus and when you disagree with our actions, call them "wrong", "inappropriate", whatever...but don't make things up.
I do agree that the word is being bandied about but that is nothing new. The anti-American movement has called te US imperial for over 100 years.
(We may disagree to which the degree of usage is increasing.)
I have long heard what some of the world has said about us and there are many factors contributing to those opinions...that does not make them correct in toto. I do not agree with all of my government's actions...in fact, I disagree with most, it seems. I have simply taken you and Canuck to task on a few things that I believe you are very wrong on. You all still don't know what I am for in many regards...I have simply been correcting, keeping in context and exposing logical errors.
It's certainly not very difficult... You say potato, the rest of the world says Imperialism! :-)
Your denial of the fact that this is how the US is perceived, (REGARDLESS of whether the term is correct) suggests you're not looking outwardly as often as you should... and frankly also suggests you wish to debate the USE of the word rather than the meaning behind it. In which case fine.
If Imperialism is incorrect (and I think I made mention in the previous post that whatever we want to call it, the CLOSEST thing we CAN call it is Imperialism, or the way out I gave you earlier... hegemony) then what shall we agree to call the direction in which the US seems to be going?
Ok. Let's agree. Using YOUR terms, it's inappropriate. It's wrong.
In the meantime I guess you will have to go on a one man crusade to tell them all they are using the incorrect terminology! :-)
"That the rest of the world says it does not make it correct in toto". Fair enough for you. But surely if the rest of the world is saying it...erm maybe it's worth listening in?
Certainly unless things change this incorrectly used term is none the less seemingly how the world PERCEIVES the US to be acting....
Seriously though - surely though this issue of perception IS important if the US wishes to keep the respect it has worked so hard to attain and is swiftly loosing in the eyes of much of the free world?
I agree the bush administration is reminiscent of the nazis but its not like it just started, the national banks along with the US government, have been controlling and oppressing peopl for over 80 years, in fact they are responsible for all four major wars this century(WW1,WW2,vietnam and now Iraq), look into it i implore you.
I suggest you read Alan Bullock's Hitler, a Study in Tyranny, then make a report back to this group. It's over 800 pages, by the way. I'll check this site every month religiously so you can give me a book report as to how you know anything about Hitler, Nazism or George Bush.
For Tweedle-Dumb #1 from Canada, I have to ask...just how many times did you have to go pee before you finished your rant? Be honest.
We do not debate children or fools...ever! But you may be both. We do not debate liars, as there can be no common ground, and you have exposed yourself as the worst kind of self-loving viral liar (that's a real type, by the way), for anyone here can actually go see the lies you concocted just to keep Streamline from kicking your ass on another Glumbert vid. He did anyway. Having no other ammunition, certainly not facts, courage, or any moral base, when backed into a corner, you lie....that is what you were no doubt taught as a child. Only you thought the internet provided you the cover to lie with impunity. Wrong-o, Sweetie. I carry a gavel. We also do not debate religious or racial bigots (remember your "f***ing Korean comments?). We're quite certain you don't know what "bigot" means from reading your earlier threads on religion, especially the Christian religion. (You seem to have no problem with Islamist murderers with guns, especially if they are close by in Canada, which raises another point altogether. ).
But we all love Canada and Canadians here... except only two that I know...and have so stated in the past. (I can do without your beer, which to me is like making love in a canoe. Fucking near water. But that's a personal opinion. ) But I have fond memories of mushing malemutes in Algonquin, ice-fishing, and taking trout in Kejimakujik. So I like the parts of Canada that are inhabited by men.
By the way, as a back-handed compliment, Mr C thinks you're an atheist. My own reading of you is that you believe in God, you just don't like Him. After all, He gets to judge you in the end, and what you really hate is being judged. Right? Rest easy, we only judge behavior, not men's souls. All that matters is how you turn out in the end and maybe you can turn it all around...but you have a much longer road to go, than say, Randall.
We here only share one common dislike, and that is of the French. But I personally don't think you can be bigoted against a country anymore than you can a blade of grass. That is only discernment. Viva la difference. So once again, learn the word before you use it. Also, we do not debate human rights with lovers of mass murderers and terrorists. You were accused of that over a week ago but have yet to summon the courage to say to "No, not me." After all, those guys are killing people, Americans, you'd really like to see killed...while, of course, you regale your audience with just how much you really respect Americans, and their Constitution, the bottom line is the enemy of your enemy is your friend. That is a tacit admission of cultural conspiracy by the way. As long as you're with the Bad guys, the Good Guys will dog you. So, you may not want to advertise so loudly in the future.
Lastly we do not debate with cowards. In looking over the portrait you've painted of yourself over the past month on Glumbert, you've shown nothing but self-love. Dig Me. Even about Canada, you only defend her, but rarely say nice things about her. I really believe you believe there is nothing more important than yourself...and for a small, unaccomplished mind, that is a sad but dangerous thing. Down here, that is how the KKK recruits, find snot-eyed, inbred losers who hate everybody who ever laid them down. That is also how Al Qaida recruits. Hitler hated the Jews because in his blood line he was one. Perhaps that is why you hate West Virginians.
Hell, at least show me a poem, or song, you wrote. A Chevy engine you overhauled, anything. Try to show you actually read a book, for Chrissakes. Moreover, while you go on about human dignity and freedom in an academic sort of a way, it's clear to us, as Mr C stated in an earlier post, you wouldn't lift a finger to defend your neighbor or best friend, much less an Arab living under the rule or a murderer. It's true that slavery was dissolved in the Empire a century before it was in America, but had it not been, it would still be a fact in Canada, if you were in charge, because you would do nothing to stop it...unless you could send someone else to do your fighting for you. After all, everything you have was set on the table for you by someone else. You Sir are a coward, and while no one can ever be expected to stand and admit it, we find it most interesting that neither can you bring yourself to deny it. As I said earlier, we only pick on certain "types" and you made the grade on Glumbert. Check on other sites and you will see, we carry only a gavel, , Hell, they're only words!. But we call out boastful liars and other intellectual deadbeats. And we never stop. We squish them like bugs.
You sure you're not just giving me a "freebie" here? HA!
Okay. Here goes:
1. "You seem to have no problem with Islamist murderers with guns, especially if they are close by in Canada, which raises another point altogether. )"
I this supposed to make me laugh? Hmmm....now gee-oh-gee...where on earth did those 9/11 hijackers come from? Oh! I know! From Saudi Arabia! And where did they enter? Hmm..oh ya! Through the U.S.A.!! Go figure! And WHO sends folks off to "renditions" to be tortured? Oh YA!! YOUR government! Gee whiz. At least the old Soviet Union did their OWN dirty work. Your government can't even manage THAT.
2. The "God" issue: gimme a fuckin' break. Now you sound like the poor mans Billy Graham. Christ sakes.
3. " You were accused of that over a week ago but have yet to summon the courage to say to "No, not me." After all, those guys are killing people, Americans, you'd really like to see killed...while, of course, you regale your audience with just how much you really respect Americans, and their Constitution, the bottom line is the enemy of your enemy is your friend. That is a tacit admission of cultural conspiracy by the way."
If this isn't an example of clinical insanity, I really don't know what is. You truly ARE a goddamn fruitcake. I mean it. (okay fine---"No, not me"--happy now? I was out of town at the time. LOL On a serious note, the young Americans that are dying now, are dying because their incompetent C-in-C sent them into a fucked up meat grinder, on a pack of bullshit. That makes HIM culpable, in my view. So stick THAT in your pipe, and smoke it.
4. "Even about Canada, you only defend her, but rarely say nice things about her."
Wrong. I have defended "her", many, many times. With facts. With reason. And a level-headed approach. While fanatically-driven morons like YOU, are quite content to sit there and say "Oh well heck; It's the U.S.A., so it's ALL good, and we're right ALL the time, 'cuz gosh-darn-it, AHM AN AMERICAN!!" Face it, dickface: YOU are NOT representative of what constitutes a decent, honorable "American" (I know---I have met them).
5. I think I've read a few more books than YOU, sonny. WAY more. Plus, I would even guess I've had slightly more SCHOOLING as well.
6. "Perhaps that is why you hate West Virginians."
Oh boy. Now I KNOW you've gone over the edge. Complete imbecile. Go back to your "Jeopardy" TV show, Einstein.
And WHO exactly is...."we"? And why are ya hung up on this slavery issue???
C- is that all you got?!
Sarcasm?! Namecalling?! You just got your butt handed to you. If it was so easy, then counter the arguments. (Whether I agree with him or not...IS THAT ALL YOU GOT?!)
You had NO coherent point in there, C! Still holding on to Bush lied?! I thought I had corrected that bologna as proveably untrue, out of context and (by the way) not a majority belief.
I even understood his argument and your rebuttal about Saudi Arabia...what are you talking about? Argue the point. (Maybe you misunderstood he point; maybe I did, but I don't think so.)
C'mon, C
I cut-and-pasted his nonsense, and responded in point form. Go read again. he writes like an ignorant dummy, so he got spoken to like an ignorant dummy. Math is pretty simple.
If, however, he decides to engage me in a REASONABLE manner (and not like some clueless, self-absorbed fanatic), then we'll carry on. Until then, this is what he asked for.......and this is what he gets.
Who's the 'we' you speak of Chummin? Hmm? C'mon now I'm really intrigued. What is the 'we' you represent? A team of fearless and brave cyber-crusaders. Battling for the rights of... erm... who exactly?
Why do you need to be a 'we'?
Ah! I see. Not man enough to fight your own intellectual battles are we? Reliant on other entities to do that for you?
Strikes me from viewing your recent postings that you're not really that capable of forming a free thought of your own are you?
Bless your little cotton socks. That's quite sweet actually. At least you're trying to give it a go.
It does though put you firmly in the wuss sector of society I'm afraid.
You carry a gavel do you? Coooool.
May I politely suggest you knock yourself out with it before continuing down the path of inanity you have obviously chosen. No offence, it'll just be for your own good really. It'll take away the pain...
But wait... there's more...
"We only pick on certain types..."
Absolutely brilliant! Another self perceived super-cyber-hero.
For crying out loud I bet you even wear a mask, a little caped crusader cloak and put your underwear on over your pants whilst you're sat in front of the monitor feverishly thumbing your last marvel comic for lurid lines.
My little chummy boy. You are really quite entertaining. Do stick around.
Also Chummin - your statment about slavery in Canada is simply too damn dumb to resist having a go at - did I do it before somewhere? Not sure
Anyway here goes again...
You accuse the Canadians that they would STILL have slavery right? Your exact words below:
"It's true that slavery was dissolved in the Empire a century before it was in America, but had it not been, it would still be a fact in Canada, if you were in charge, because you would do nothing to stop it...unless you could send someone else to do your fighting for you"
Erm... as you say it was banned. So your entire point is moot.
Canada as part of the Commonwealth (and I ain't Canadian by the way) decided that keeping and owning people as possessions was simply untenable if humanity was to develop on a more equitable and fair basis.
Put simply they saw the gross error and stupidity of their ways.
The US on the other hand took an extra 100 years to figure this out.
Guess they were kind of in the remedial class at 'Humanity' school.
Now, when the top of the class remedial kids cottoned on (excuse the pun in the context of slavery) to the fact that slavery was a 'bad thing', they then had to spend further time beating the shit out of the even dumber ones in the class who still thought chaining people up was ok....
And YOU want to be taken seriously!!
Holy crap you're a retard. Anyway I know you'll be back for more. I guess, as with 'special' kids we just have to be patient with you.
C-I want to address your second post first...the one about cops and investigations. Please go back and re-read what you wrote and what I wrote. This is not it and really unrelated. At the time we were discussing accusations of crime with no evidence. I explained that one could not simply call the cops on a hunch or suspicion, but some evidence is needed before a cop can start kickin doors in. Here, you have now changed the argument to one where a citizen complains about a violation of the law...not suspicion of violation. The question is: Do YOU get the difference?
I read the story and we don't know everything. But, since you are a cop, you will notice that they were in jail for "two counts of assault on a government employee, resisting arrest and a rarely used charge, desecrating an American flag, all misdemeanors." They were released that afternoon. It may have been a stupid arrest (cops possibly make mistakes, too) but not nearly so as your assessment of it.
I knew you'd have something to say about Rove. Logically erroneous?
YES: You have no idea why Rove left, just your worldview and what is on the DailyKos. They have been talking of his resigning for over a year. I don't know why but I guess a few things were involved. By the way, he can still be called/subpoenad if anything materializes. (Don't worry, it won't. Like most of the Dems action these last 10 months have been completely fruitless. Where are all those charges and convictions?)
Resigning cabinet members is not anything new in any admin, C. Do a little homework. You're getting sloppy.
Shucks, Stream...NOW who's doing the wriggling here??
Here we go again:
The police ARE OBLIGATED to investigate ANY report or violation of the law. Period. THAT cop in this article SAID SO....I SAID SO...that's the end of it. You ARE wrong on this one....so please...try to get over it. Eighteen posters can come on right now, claiming to be cops, and verify what I'm saying, and you'll STILL dimiss it. So give it a rest awready, ok?
Plus, your whole "this is unrelated" or "its from DailyKos" , or "its liberal bias" arguments are getting stale (yes, you've used them MANY times). Karl Rove left because he was a coward, crook and didn't want to testify. It's that simple. His job was to get Bush elected, period, and he put that ABOVE country and duty. And my-my-my.....just how MANY high-ranking members of Bushs government have "resigned"? Or been "reassigned"? Or been "convicted"? Shall we go through all of the corrupt "fascists", and name them (like I did before)?
“We have jurisdiction throughout the whole county of Buncombe,” Sorrells said. “We have a citizen that complains to us about a violation of law, we’re bound by oath to act on it.”
There. I cut-and-pasted it again.
That is a direct quote from a POLICEMAN. He is with the POH-LEECE. They say POH-LEECE-type things. He does NOT say anything about there needing to be EVEEDENCE, or PROOOOF or anything like that. He is a POH-LEECEMAN who says he is OBLEEEGATED by OATH to act on complaints or VIOLAYSHON of complaints.....because he is a POH-LEECEMAN. He sez he jes' neeeds a COMPLAINT...but no EVEEEDENCE.
C-This will hurt you more than me...the spanking, I mean.
What you wrote:
"Whether it's someones say-so, a newspaper clipping, an innuendo, or whatever.....it's an ACCUSATION that warrants looking into."
(Remember that part and then read my response at the time. I didn't even fix my misspellings.)
"I can't call up the local constabulary and level accuastions without warrent and expect them to drop everything and come investigate. The example you used presumes knowledge of the deed. In the case against Bush, you have nothing but innuendo that has gone nowhere and will go nowhere." You see, if I call the cops and say, I think my neighbor is a drug dealer...they will need more than that to send a car out...possibly a witnessing of an act, a known violation, something...not just an accusation.
Just like the story above that was a response to a known violation of the law...very different from a warrantless accusation. You have tried to change the nature of the arguments. Do YOU understand? (Why are you telling me to give it a rest...you brought it up and did so erroneously.) Now that you have shown your butt and been proven wrong again, will it ever cease?
Hey, good effort, little guy. Remember: Checkmate is a word reserved for people who have won the contest definitively.
Now to the first oddity:
How do you know so much about Rove? Coward? Crook? You know none of this and yet, like so many things you have arrogantly asserted, you act like it must be true. If it doesn't fit your worldview, it must not be true and you are afraid to look into it. (I just re-read many of our exchanges and wow...in retrospect you really have been regurgitating Kos Krap.) BTW-been following the Plamegate stuff lately? Probably not. But, might want to check into some recently declassified docs. Not looking good for those two.
C-How many have resigned? Reassigned? Convicted? You are looking bad here. Sloppy is now an understatement.
Please go through the corrupt fascists...everytime you do, you provide me with beautiful fodder to teach basic definitions, logic, context,etc.
Hey Streamlined I'm not going to get in between you and Canuck on this but I just thought I'd query you on the whole resignation / indictment / criminal investigation thing you alude to above.
Thought this might make interesting reading. It's the (long) list of Republican officials, senators, lobbyists etc who are currently under investigation, or who have been indicted:
Quite a list isn't it? And yes it includes convictions.
In the interests of balanced muck flinging I checked to see what a search for corrupt Democrats brought up as well. Two of them make the list of the 13 most corrupt members of Congress and they do in truth seem to be fewer in number.
Of course this has a lot to do with the Republicans having a huge majority in the Senate and House... Oh... erm no that's not right is it?
A list of indicted/ convicted Republicans is not what we are arguing. Please read what I am arguing against. I am of no political party and blanket dishonesty knows no political party. I will say this...Republicans tend to throw out their riff-raff. The Dems absolutely do not.
One Note to above comment, Tweedle-Dumb#1 is not allowed to call anyone coward. People who approve of tyranny..or are afraid to fight against it, don't earn the privilege. (Scatman)
i have told you and you wont hear. above are many exsampes.... 8th GRADE CIVICS ?? i dont get that
i read alot and i see what we have done . i see the goodness and the bad. you apparently dont.
its like a mother who is almost always the last one to see the child she loves has gone bad.
i must say thoe stream. i like your straight forward no nothing will change my mind approach no matter if it is the truth. because it further strengthens my resolve to show it to you.
so quit avoiding it, dont avert your eyes and try to help fix whats wrong with our country and not reliveing your 8th grade civics class,,,, its been along time since 8th grade!!! i hope.
now im off to tell all who will listen or even care about cigarets, and how my goverment is making millions off of the addicted and dying....
A list of indicted/ convicted Republicans is not what we are arguing. Please read what I am arguing against. I am of no political party and blanket dishonesty knows no political party. I will say this...Republicans tend to throw out their riff-raff. The Dems absolutely do not.
Didn't mean to post that one (above) there. !!!
RF-I know you don't get 8th grade civics, neither does Canuck. That is why I made the comment.
When you re-read my posts, the central theme (not the only one) is to oppose the factually incorrect and illogical assertions of some. You are left, often, to assuming that I am in favor of the opposite side. Shouldn't do that, RF.
Goodness, Girls. You'd had thought I'd made fun of one-handed masturbation. You perfectly made my case as to why it's not a good idea to debate with children or fools. (I speak of "we' Tweedle-Dumb#2 because there's more than one of us. I get paid to do this.) "We" are profilers, and go out on the internet and make profiles of the kinds of people who say things that are 1) bodacious and offensive (to us) and 2) they can't seem to prove. We monitor arguments and debates against all the standard rules, you know, such as evidence, proof, etc that history over the years has unfairly stacked against you. I know iit seems unfair to you...and that seems to be part of your profiles. You seem to be throwing a teat fit because the world isn't ordered the way you want it to be. A big enough teat fit in fact, I'm surprised someone hasn't asked either of you just what your husband does for a living?
In the end, when not already done for us, we expose and label liars, racists, bigots, and yes, terror-symps. There are reasons why people lie chronically...or kiss up to terrrorists, which you still haven't denied...and sadly we've proved. But you have added to our profiles. That said, I admit Tweedle Dumb #1 is a remarkable case all by himself, and has attracted special attention for us, for usually those with an ax to grind titty their cards until they find out how the opposition stacks up against them. In all our years of observation we've never ever seen a person so stupid, as to lunge headlong onto the internet highway, crowing to the top of his voice that people should actually stop and notice how stupid he is. That I find remarkable. Cheers, Girls
Oooooh that's us all told. So it's 'We' is it? Bit royal surely?
I'll call you Wee-Wee from now on as there's more than one of you, do we need to behave now?
Go get a life and stop wasting time here. Either add to the debate or not, but don't sit there pretending you're some moral authority.
If you're gonna make yourself useful either get me the gin and tonic I asked you for a while ago or go find the racists and paedophile jokers. They're easy to root out. Go start snuffling
Doubt you'll find terrorist sympthisers here if you're talking sympathisers of the 'rag head' terrorist variety. What you may find though, much to your chagrin, are those who question what your great nation is doing. Deal with it.
As has been said many a time, "one man's terrorist etc etc..."
And little Oracle, if you are what you say you are then please come up with some indisputed facts that end the arguments herein.
Erm lots of indictments... more than normal perhaps? This suggests to me an overly corrupt and ill advised congress. It seem we would agree right?
Factual innacuracies you say - guess I just wanted to point out a few of the corrupt fascists you were condescendingly suggesting to Canuck he would find trouble finding.
You are of no political party yet you are without doubt bent towards a republican persona in its current neo con form. This is how you come across in these threads Streamy, like it or not. Your imminent protestations to the contrary really won't wash
You argue points very well I give you that, but occassionally it really would befit you just once or twice to come down off your ivory tower. You might perhaps find that once down, the clouds surrounding that tower have been preventing you seeing the ground properly - an anology for perhaps getting you to concede that others may have a point of view as valid and as strongly held as yours?
So far I have from you:
1. a refusal from you to admit that the US might be considered Imperialist. Instead you hide behind an argument about the definition of the word and will not allow for the fact that the great majority of people believe that word to be extremely apposite
2. especially disturbing views (admittedly on a topic that is polarising your country) on abortion which again a refusal to admit that others have a point
3. a refusal to admit that international law has been broken by US invasion and occupation of Iraq (despite being handed a lesson on the word of your own constitution), in this case I gave up because you began responding with your traditional tactics of bluff and procrastination
4. the MOST serious transgression of contracting somthing known as 'Chummin' and bringing it to this previously only minimally idiot-infected website.
This latter point is unforgiveable. All the others you fight your case well on but DO please show a wee bit of humility when wrong. Incidentlly
M-
I have some formal background in argumentation. I am sorry that I stick to points and argue them. That frustrates people and makes them write things like you just wrote.
Further, some of you seem to think that because you say it, it must be true. It has routinely been demonstrated the opposite. (In te above, you are showing that as well. I commented on Bush Admin convictions, you send me to a list of republican indictments, etc. Unrelated, but made you feel good nonetheless.)
Further, if you cannot tell the difference between a conservative and a Republican, then you are still in your mid to lower 20's. The current batch of Republicans are hardly conservative.
I have never argued that someones beliefs aren't valid...to them. But, I have to call a spade a spade and I will not apologize for holding others feet to the fire, nor do I expect any less.
1. M- this is getting silly. I never said the US wasn't considered imperialist. I disagreed with the assertion. I acknowledged more than once that there are those who believe it. I believe they have purposefully used that word because it sticks in a political way...even if the definition is wrongly applied. There is no great majority on this one, M. Academic-types and left thinkers, including leftist world leaders, believe the US to be imperialists...they have great sway upon those who already don't like us. It is dogpiling.
2. Never said you don't have a point...I have just disagreed and showed, what I think are the flaws.
3. A. If a law was broken, prosecute or find someone who will. B. The opposite was shown with regard to the Constitution. Canuck had never cracked a page in that thing and understands nothing of it. Apparently, you do not either. The way it looks to me, is that you do not like the answers you receive and simply cannot stand it. I do not ind you disagreeing. I don't really care. But, I cannot stand by while absurd notions about our Constitution are tossed around by those who have no idea what's in it...nor, how it applies to an organozation like the UN.
4. What are you talking about...contracting something known as Chummin?
You have not shown one instance of me being wrong, whether you had points of merit or not.
I, not "we", own you. Now calm down, call Mom, (and put it on speaker phone so your analyst can hear, too) and as you said, above, try learn a thing or two. Too late to escape the Terror-symp, your Ladyship. That's why I own you. Doesn't make a difference to me whether you're one of the inbreds who run off to join the KKK, or street thugs that made up the SA in Germany in the 30s, or a rag-head killing citizens with a car-bomb in Baghdad, the type is the same. Only you're just a Symp, not a fighter, because it's too much effort to join' em....not to mention you might get hurt. Easier to puff and bellow with a keyboard..one handed of course, while your hold self-congress with your parliament. I own you because you are indifferent to the idea of people being free....especially if it means getting up off your arse for any reason other than going to the frig or taking a crap. This is course is because you believe in nothing larger than yourself, and while you like to regale the crowd with things you do know, or can Google, it tells us nothing about what kind a person you, what you hold dear, other than your own bleeding self, your narcissism and your appetites. The only things beyond that you seem to love are also the things you hate. Some people are born small, but others are self-made...well...men. What a microbe and mental arthritic. Cheers, your Ladyship
Streamlined I'll get back to you on your points above. Just need to sctratch an itch...
Chummin... Where's my gin and tonic you snivelling little ignoramus?
Is your little cape and mask preventing you from finding the drinks cabinet?
Or is the jockstrap you're wearing over your pants giving you too much of a painful wedgie to walk?
Off you go now and do something useful.
From now on, unless you can add something sensible to the debate or bring facts to the fore which defnitively prove our arguments one way or another (and under no alias) you're PNG with me.
Off you toddle. No more responses for you. I know you thrive on them
Hi Streamlined. Congratulations on having some formal background in argument. Good for you. It shows. Do you mind me asking what and where?
However I urge you to read through the links people send you so that you may learn a little and not get caught out. You wanted indicted Bush Admin figures? I thought I gave you them in the link. I’ll reiterate them so they may at least help open your eyes to some facts about your beloved administration which, despite your protestations to the contrary, you seem to support so blindingly:
David Safavian – Indicted and currently under arrest
Scooter Libby – Indicted, resigned, off scot free! Hmmm
Richard Perle – Under investigation, resigned
Kyle "Dusty" Foggo (George W. Bush's CIA Executive Director) – not actually indicted but under investigation by the FBI, the IRS, the DCIS and the CIA
John Hannah – Co-operating with prosecutors
David Wurmser – Co-operating with prosecutors
Ok enough of that as it was between you and Canuck…
Onto the points you mentioned above.
I had you down as a republican NEO-conservative for a number of simple reasons:
1.Your apparent blind adulation of the current Bush Adminstration to the point I really do feel you might be Cheney himself – you keep denying any political affiliation but c’mon Streamy, we’re not feeling it at this end!
2.Your positions on the abortion argument are incredibly conservative, unless you are just playing Devils advocate – you? A man of God? Surely not…
3.You feel that unilateral action is the best action possible for the US and will never consider an alternative – a very neo con statement and one which underpins their entire outlook (demonstrably as we have seen in Iraq. Afghanistan is not the same and you are supported there!)
4. Constant referrals to the ‘left’ in dismissive terms, even despite the fact that ‘the left’ you are taking about may well consist of a huge majority. You call them ‘the left’, the rest of us call them… erm… normal people with centre views, centre right views as well, no doubt, as people with extreme left wing views
5. You mention 70% disapproval. Fine they don’t hate the GWB they disagree with him as you said.
LOTS of them disagree. Don’t clutch at straws here… your views seldom seem to get much support given that your online persona seems to fall into the 30% category of people who DO agree that GWB and the current neo conservative outlook is the right one.
That’s why. Don’t worry, it’s not personal and I don’t begrudge you in any way. I’m just responding to your question.
Now in case you don’t actually GET what a NEO-CON is, I urge you to read the attached. Please, really read it this time, and then explain to me why it is you feel it is not possible to be a republican neo-conservative given that this is what the GWB administration essentially consists of at the higher end of its little house of cards.
Now you may not actually be a Neo-con Rep. That is fine. I reiterate my point – you come across like one.
Now…. Onto the good old Imperialism chat. Which I agree is getting rather silly. Nonetheless…. Good, we’re getting there. You understand that the United States IS considered Imperialist.
It’s an excellent step and one I concede you may have made earlier than I give you credit for.
The fact you cannot apparently see WHY, and therefore disagree with the assertion smacks again of devils advocate at work. To be fair this is something only you can really read up on or find out for yourself.
I appreciate the number of threads explaining it to you may have fried a few circuits. Probably the best course to remedy your stunted world view is to get the old passport out and get out of the country a little more – was this not a previous recommendation of mine to you?
Yes I know it’s a pain in the ass because the security at your airports is a tad tight; kinda has to be these days you know. (Hmmm, we covered blowback before - Chummin that comment was for you to get your little self worked up on if you’re reading this)
But honestly Streamy, it’s worth the wait. You get to see what the rest of the world REALLY thinks. And possibly, just possibly, you might see that it isn’t just screaming left wing sissies saying it. Or left-wing academics… No. Instead you’ll find its people. Just normal, everyday people… everywhere… And they’ll be normal about it too; compassionate, dispassionate, sympathetic, passionate. You name it.
(Unless you’re in the Middle East of course, where they’d be a little more…erm…vocal in their views shall we say)
It’d also enable you to start your mission of informing the whole world they are wrong in their use of the word Imperialism. Before you go though, pick this up to read in the airport queues:
On abortion – fair enough I’ve left a message for you on that thread and we both know where we stand. Good debate. One that could go on forever and no doubt will, I think you and I have said all we can but please continue of you wish. I believe I’ve given you the flaws in your argument and you mine.
Regards the whole UN Iraq thing. Again, you feel that the US acted legally. The vast majority (of the sensible.. not just left wing… sensible) world think the US admin did not. Interestingly it also gave me another insight into your political leanings given that a neoconservative view would have the US acting far more unilaterally than previous administrations. This is certainly what the US has done, and it contravenes international law. Period.
You’ve admitted that previously so we’re ok on that point but then followed it up with some slightly bellicose remarks along the lines of (I paraphrase here) ‘we can do what we want, we answer to no one, the US has every right etc’.
This is what I come to expect of you once your back is to the wall. It’s common I guess for many of us to react this way.
Regards the argument on the constitution. I wholeheartedly endorse your right to stand up on this. You are doing the right and patriotic thing, but do please hear me out.
I’d like you to comment ONLY and SPECIFICALLY on the following paragraphs laid out below. Do also provide me with the facts that provide back-up to any dispute you may have with the info below. Failure to do so won’t help your cause much.
Now, in 1945, the United States signed and ratified the Charter of the United Nations.
Correct?
This is vital Streamlined! It’s important you read the capital letters in the following paragraph. It is your constitution and you are the scholar of it:
Article VI of the US Constitution states... "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and ALL TREATIES made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
Correct?
RATIFICATION made the Charter a TREATY binding on the United States.
Correct?
As a treaty it is thereby an integral part of the "Supreme Law of the Land," according to Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, quoted above.
Correct?
Therefore:
The constitution effectively provides that the Charter has Treaty status and as such should NOT be ignored.
Correct?
The Bush Admin ignored it.
Correct?
I doubt you will agree on this point. I just wanted to illustrate to you how clear it is to those of us who see.
Now as for my mention of Chummin he’s some little scrote who recently popped up on Glumbert announcing himself as the moral gavel carrier.
He seems to have taken a liking to you, but unlike yourself (most of the time that is) he has a hugely inflated opinion of himself and seemed to view you as his conduit, hence I informed you that you appear to have ‘contracted’ him.
I reassert that you both may easily be working together. Apols if this is not the case as he no doubt has poor bodily hygiene and questionable social skills.
Anyone that seriously uses wikipedia as a reference loses all credibility in business school. Wikipedia may be able to give somebody an idea on a topic, but nobody worth their salt would EVER EVER use Wikipedia as a reference source. Mako - you just dropped several pegs, and now this has been pointed out I am sure you will not use Wikipedia in the future, however your eye will be swollen shut for a while from the self-inflicted black eye. i am glad that I sat back and watched you verbally socked yourself.
You are referring the reader to read a wikipedia article. Uhhhhhh........If you acknowledge that wikipedia is not a site to use as a reference, why send someone there for easy reading? You shouldn't respond as a reply will probably knock you down a few more notches.
I really don't think the fall can be prevented. I knew when Bush 'won' the second time the whole downfall was going to happen faster. No one really believes that America can fail, which is why it will happen. The face of the globe is littered with failed empires, and they all failed exactly the same way. History may write it in another way, but it is always the same.
At the top of this post we discussed the focal point of the collapse of all empires, and one really noticed, or cared. I am just a citizen of Rome and I disagree with the Holy Emperor. His followers will use the great fire to obtain enough power to force the Empire into ruin.
Empires fall. The reason the above people are arguing with such fervor is that at some level they are aware that this is true. It is their fear, of which they may not even be aware, that causes polarization and anger. Those aligned to either extreme are actually the most powerless to change the course of events, yet they don't believe this to be true.
Indeed, their alignments to the either side of center is not based on a underlying philosophy, but the fear that one side or the other will be victorious in the end, and they will be safe.
P,C- First USA as "imperialist", now as "Empire". (Were it true that we were an empire. Mouahahhaahaa) Seriously...no, hard to be serious with that.
America may fall (internally it may have happened), so, what will that fall look like?
Sorry if it is apocalyptic. I have worked with logic my entire life, and to a certain extent is gives me insight to the outcome of variables, and constants. I was not surprised by the actions of 911, and the world did not change on 911, it had already changed before that, and a blind man could have foreseen it.
Just....extrapolating....from various sources....seeing if it paints a "big picture"......and sorry, but it does.
Disturbingly so.
And yes, the U.S. mostly certainly IS an "empire"; it's just not referred to that way, because of the politically-correct climate we live in, plus its negative connotations.
C- I thought not. Just those who agree with you, I suppose. It does paint a big picture, I'll give you that. Like Jackson Pollock.
Wait, you think America is an empire?! No! Not you Canuck.
BTW-you have not responded to my post to you above.
Do ya think your pals at that-there "museum" will include THIS in their display? Or maybe fudge those dates a bit?
Whattaya think?
And as for your question...hmmm...I think it will be an economic implosion, of sorts. You can only keep printing money for so long, and so much at a time, before its value plunges and becomes worthless. Once that happens, it creates a "domino effect" (not like the one in 'Nam, but a REAL one), and pretty soon other countries start calling in their markers, and demanding THEIR payment, leading to a ruinous death-spiral of the the currencys purchasing power, if not the currency ITSELF. The "Great Depression" will look like prosperous times, compared to this happening. Jobs? Bye. Cost of simple groceries? BUH-bye. Cost of gasoline (after federal oil reserves have been depleted)? Sayonnara. Time it takes all of your Arab nation pals (that have investments in the U.S., currently equal to 7-10% of the U.S. economy as a whole) to haul out ALL their dough? 34.8 seconds.
That's my answer.
Have at it.
(And if the Comptroller General of the GAO is sounding the alarm, then I'd pretty well say it's bad.)
P-I see. Is there a timeline on this pending fall? Since there was nothing to predict, I am sort of lost. Are we amidst the fall now? If so, how does it end?
C-
Not arguing predictions, especially those that are desired by the seer. Your glee in anything bad for America is very apparent, C.
If you'd like to go back to the "origins" debate, you will be out-classed again, C. An unfossilized forest? The burden of proof would be on the old earther to show why, in 8m years, it did NOT fossilize and that this phenomena falls out of the paradigm. But, you wouldn't know it falls outside the uniformitarian thinking, C...you simply don't know any better.
I WOULD, however, have TREMENDOUS "glee" in anything "bad" happening to the current U.S. Administration, though. Public hangings would be a good start, starting with Alberto and going all the way up the pecking order. I truly believe, were that to happen, that the Republic would be saved.
i would like to thank Pod , Canuck , mako, Bill and a few others for articulating and putting into perspective thier feelings and the FACTS that you failed to do time and time again the facts that is. your feeling are well noted . for thats all you really have in the end . no FACTS .
Mako, Canuck, RF...
(Chummin-I got this one)
I will try to use some invective restraint but I am only human.
Miami U...2 classes on logic(informal) and argumentation and defending two research papers in Zoology. (Also, one of my parents was an attorney.) Not too shabby for a layman.
Thank you for the list of indictments. Again, indictments mean nothing. Under investigation means nothing. Those are reflections of the desires of who is in charge...everytime. When the convictions start rolling in like in the Clinton Admin, lets talk. You know less than Canuck about the application of law. (I am no big fan of Bush Inc! I am a big fan of the approach we have taken on the war on terror; that of offense. As for the rest of his time as President...let's just say, I could use a new guy in there. But, the tactics employed against him are the ones that are silly. The Dems have accused, indicted and smeared...to what end? People like Canuck, and sounds like you as well, think Bush a liar, evil and his Admin crooked. You are either stupid or ignorant or a combination of both. That was one incredibly short list to justify your beliefs. Glad you di your homewrok, though and glad you came around to sticking to the argument and helping me prove my point of the paucity of relevance you have.)
It is important for you to label me a Republican Neo-Con so that you do not have to engage in ideas but to engage what you believe they stand for. This is a form of the strawman argument and your bullet-points show how very little you think. Reminds me of someone else.
1. I have no blind adulation for this Admin. You have no ability to critically think nor debate what I say. I support the current war on terror. Like any war it has mis-steps, good and bad strategies, allies that come and go, etc. In all my threads I have constantly shown the error of thinking in others about specific things. When you draw from that that I have blind adulation for the Admin you show your inability to reason.
2. Conservative...yes...Republican...no
3. You drew that right out of thin air. I have said nothing that resembles that in toto. If Bush and the Congress did what they thought was best, who cares what anyone else thinks? If you do, and then actually defer to what they think, you are a coward.
4. I have sometime dismissed the "left" and sometimes not. The left has no majority in America...it is not even close. I believe you don't know what the "left" means and what they have, for about 120 years, stood for in the West...Europe, Canada included. This particular bullet-point can only come from deep ignorance on your part.
5. I assume you, like me, don't give too much creedence to polls. However, they are interesting. I do suggest you look at polls that ask specific questions about Admin decisions and then apply them to the 70% figure. Over the course of a few months, you see that people are extraordinarily fickle.
I know it makes you and others feel good to be a part of a current majority. Good. I believe that Bush's presidency and, in particular, how the Dems have responded to it...is leading to a conservative landslide in Congress and another Republican president. (The Congressional landslide may be another election cycle away.)
Note to anyone citing wikipedia: To do so severely damages your tenuous reputation as someone smart.
I only come across like that (as Neo-Con) to you and those who must pigeon-hole others because they do not have the ability to engage in ideas. (It is a debate tactic commonly used by people who come to the debate unprepared and short on facts. No kidding.)
IMPERIALIST chat: Yes...I agree that some see the US as imperialist. That idea is primarily in the leftist mindset. The righties have a different view of America. I have even explained why I see it that way. You and others, who agree with that tripe, have made it clear. It is the same argument for the lat 120 years. That does not make it correct...in fact, it seems more and more absurd when cast in the light of French, British, German and Roman imperialism.
(M-you desparately need others approval for your own views. Whenever you tell me to travel, as I have done (Europe, Canada, Central America, Australia), you show only your desire to have your views confirmed. Iget it...others disagree. Many of whom are fed their state sponsored press' version of America. Fine. I certainly don't trust my press' version of the rest of the world!)
Blowback was covered before...I destroyed the take on it then.
Middle East...more vocal in their views?! I think you mean less vocal as societies go. That is partly why some resort to killing to make a point.
I am on no mission to change the world, nor you. That sort of thing comes from the inside. (BTW- the "world" accepted the eugenics movement for a short while precisely because it had taken and redefined words like "compassion", "kindness"...to promote their cause. Leftist politicians and academics have doen the same thing to "Imperialism".)
ON to the UN thing: (Please sit down...you are not nearly as smart as you think you are)
After your rolling juggernaut of ignorance...explaining and quoting the Constitution to establish a black and white case that what we have done is illegal and against the very words of our founding document...I have two things to say:
A. Why has no one charged forth with this as prosecutable? You are in the uncomfortable position of answering that. Either the people you support are cowards (I believe that) OR there must be something else there, something that explains that what you assert is not quite that simple (this is really the answer...see B.)
B. (I will even re-print the relevant lines from the Constitution for anyone reading this for the first time)
Clarification of a clause in the Constitution of the United States is in order here. Article VI, clause 2 declares that “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the Land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is the last clause that is misunderstood, even by attorneys. “... Constitution or Laws of any State ...” refers to the Constitutions of the several states, NOT the Constitution of the United States. The Founding Fathers were much too well informed to allow the state Constitutions to alter the United States Constitution. That would have been self defeating. The truth of the matter is that neither treaties nor state laws can supersede or alter the Constitution of the United States. Our national document is etched in stone. It is unfortunate that most Congress Persons do not read stone.
The following is a powerful excerpt from page 482 of the documentation: “A question growing out of the discussion above is whether the treaty power is bounded by constitutional limitations. By the supremacy clause, both statutes and treaties ``are declared . . . to be the supreme law of the land, and no superior efficacy is given to either over the other.''\328\ As statutes may be held void because they contravene the Constitution, it should follow that treaties may be held void, the Constitution being superior to both. And indeed [[Page 483]] the Court has numerous times so stated”.
One does not need to be an attorney to understand that. You will undoubtedly continue to hold on to your belief about illegality, but you can no longer do it on these grounds. (Canada, by the way, has the same understanding of their role in the UN...so does every other country out there. That is why NO ONE is screaming for the US to be brought up on charges of any illegality.)
(Everytime you and Canuck write "period" or "Checkmate", you use them prematurely.)
After all your work and (what you thought was logical) posturing...thank you for the opportunity to hold forth on the basics of US Constitutional jurisprudence as it relates to the UN Charter.
You and Canuck seem to dismiss Chummin since he has a different tactic of discourse. He seems to be making cultural and societal claims. Those are difficult to back with "googled" facts...and, are left in the realm of opinions. Admittedly so. Very different from claiming ones own opinions to be actual facts.
I know this was long, but the litany of Brittany had to be addressed.
(Mako-did you say you are not Canadian?)
I looked back at previous Chumm comments and the only fact he stated was that Americans have died for the liberty of other men. He only surmised that Canuck and Mako were unwilling to do such a thing, and that they were Terror-Symps. That was simply an opinion. Their silence proved the fact. He only brought it up.
The fact that they are liars and cowards also is established by them, not me. I just lay it out what they say, and let logic and nature decide. Things like that either are or they are not. In this case, they are and all the wishing and hoping and teat fit throwing won't change it. I can't help the fact that poor potty training or the fact that Little League award ribbons only went down to 10th Place have distorted some people's ability to think critically.
Than you, Canuck, for adding nothing to the debate.
(I love it tht you all think Chummin and I are the same.)
Pods- you were definitely God's will. : )
And, no, I showed Canuck to be a willing liar in at least one instance.
ByStreamy who should do the explaining, you or 'Chummin'
Me thinks perchance it's YOU who may need to do a little explaining...
LOL
Don't worry, don't feel bad. No one knows (or really cares) who you are so it's hardly like the neighbours will be talking.
It might go around inside your little head though for a wee while... And whilst it does you should really be questioning WHY it is that you need an alias to help you out.
It seems you're a bipolar personality? Well why not halve the cost of (both) your medical care bills, go to the shrink and get two evaluations for the price of one!
Saw this clip and for some reason it made me think of you... actually made me think of Chummin more so given his caped crusader persona, but if you;re both the same guy you may as well have a look too...
Worth watching up until the camera pans back to reveal an empty room - the audience have given up I guess... Surely another anology there?
As a programmer I know this error I have seen it many times.
It was a cut and paste error. The top part of the Chum comment was supposed to be at the bottom of the previous Stream comment. He just did not grab enough of it. And the bottom was supposed to be the Chum comment in response.
And Randal - the term SCAT is what he thinks of our comments. Scatology being the science of examining animal excrement to detect various clues about the animal's habits.
I guess he doesn't think much of us, because we are not following his God, and that means we are soulless garbage to be examined.
oh, im sorry LOL that did look that way LMAO... now that i looked at it i can see the mistake i made in wording the above THANKS, im really not good at this.
no Canuck. Mako, Pod and Bill i THANK YOU FOR THE FACTS i thought you guys said all that i couldnt.
Stream thanks for i large glimps in the insane world you live in. its pretty funny. for real.!! sorry guys for the mix up i believe you see life as it really exist. and your argument s were top notch
i have been contacted by soreses unknowen to me but if i had to guess i would say it the chummin group. my mission to seek out and expose Aliases . being an exalias myself the"group"thought i could do a great job and has asked me to put my life on the line so i have agreed to take on this dangerous assignment to safe gaurd America from all you Ko0Ks!
thay revoked his mask and cloak. so thay told me, but that could be a ,,,,oohhh.......i said to much now look what you made me do ...... there talking there talking .....aaaaaaahhhhhh make it stop , make it stopppppppp.............................................
As a programmer I know this error I have seen it many times.
It was a cut and paste error. The top part of the Chum comment was supposed to be at the bottom of the previous Stream comment. He just did not grab enough of it. And the bottom was supposed to be the Chum comment in response.
And Randal - the term SCAT is what he thinks of our comments. Scatology being the science of examining animal excrement to detect various clues about the animal's habits.
I guess he doesn't think much of us, because we are not following his God, and that means we are soulless garbage to be examined.
Throbmystick: felt so attacked and isolated, that he conjures up several aliases to make it APPEAR as though he's got some agreement with him;
Streamlined: felt so attacked and isolated that he conjures up an alias (maybe even more than one!) to make it appear as though he's a got some kind of collective agreement in his camp; in THIS case, I personally think he did this for the biggest reason being, that he was so IRKED at what I and everyone else had been saying to him, that he created this alter-ego as a means of lashing out, and saying the the nastiest things that he COULDN'T as his "real" self.
In a way, I kinda don't blame him, really; after all.....truth can hurt sometimes.
C - agree 100%. A HUUUUGE way. Oh how the mighty can fall
Actually I'm kinda shocked! Thing is he can string an argument together quite well but when things get touch he seems just to get pious and self righteous about it all. And the wriggling...oh my! Definitions required, acquired and ignored... changes of position away from orginal point... holy shit it tries one's patience
I must really broaden my horizons tho - coz secretly this has made my feckin day!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
PS Just found throbby and his aliases all together at once on the giggles thread - too good to resist...
Well it must have really hurt at the moment he noticed his error. Now after the lie, everything he wrote is complete garbage, because it is all from a sanctimonious liar.
P, C, M, Rf...
It is clear that you think Chummin and myself are the same and that you have now used your comic book reasoning skills to confirm it. I don't mind one bit. Actually, it hacks me off a bit since we are not. But, c'est la vie. (A little ticked a Chummin for whatever he was doing.)
That being said...I noticed no one, and I mean NO ONE, responded to my arguments. Gone is the notion that the US violated its own Constitution vs a vis the UN charter when it attacked Iraq.
I am sorry that the meanings of words matter. If one cannot agree on what basic words mean then it is difficult to move forward in discourse. (Propaganda rule: Change the language to suit your goals.)
I know in the fantasyland that is the internet, it is very important to pat each other on the back to be accepted. All those things are fine, but are schoolyard at best. I mean, really...the juvenile cut downs to get the approval of the ignorati. Just as sad as those guys making "yo momma" jokes elsewhere. If this is what it has come to, so be it.
Podman-you are not smart enough to identify sanctimony nor a lie. You have a unique skill in creating off-the-wall humor as seen on other posts. But, that is where it ends.
If so then I owe Stream a very BIG apology, if not then it all stands as is.
I have to say to everyone at this point I do not lie, I take things at face value, (what else do we have to go on), and I actually think Stream is a asset to the site.
However, I cannot stand all of this alias crap, and I think I have had enough of all of it!
Stream - If you are NOT Chum then I offer my sincerest apology (I really mean it). I don't care anymore and I am just angered by all of this alias crap. Bye to all...
Pod - don't worry RF's off to unseat the alias usurpers.
Streamy I think, maybe, is who he actually says who he is... just may be.. frankly my jury is still out
I have to say the style of language betwixt (saw that word somewhere else on these threads and liked it) the two paragraphs was VERY Streamy followed by VERY Chummin.
Streamy - Canuck and I ain't the same.
Maybe similar outlooks on certain things, namely up for a good ol argument if the subject is on stuff we feel strongly, and may actually know something about, presents itself. But I think both of us have admitted we've argued before (as I think we've both said before) and until the issue of Canadian beer, ice hockey or the battle of britain presents itself again we are stuck with getting into you :-)
You just seem to have inadvertently caught the collective eye as someone worth banjoing once in a while!?
C'mon man - admit it. You like a good row once in a while right?
I was hoping Chummin would have responded by now. He may do so later.
Chummin is a colleague of mine. When I discovered Glumbert and the comments therein, I figured he would enjoy getting involved. So, I sent him an email with the ongoing discussions and he got in.
It seems some of you might know each other as well, from other posts. I even thought Canuck and Mako were the same since their reasoning was so similar and they patted each others backs so often.
I do not take too well to being called a liar since I do not lie. I tell you this now so that you can not go any farther believing either lying or deception.
I have plyed above board and will continue to do so.
Ok all anyone needs to do is go to the angry American page and read chummin's introductory post, he says a friend in the U.K told him of the glumbert site.( not you stream ?) and he seemed pretty familiar with the "Canadians" that were there i dont know about the rest of you guys but i told a few of my friends about this site and the responce is not anything like that. as a matter of fact thay laugh and thats the end of it. stream you made chummin up but with all that was happening you had to dumb him down a bit but not to much you didnt want a compleat idiot being your side kick LMAO. now that you slipped up you think its a good time to say that you know chummin ?
you also state we have each other to pat on the back . Stream had no one to pat him on the back. alas chummin!!!
which brings me to this ...... ALIAS,ALIAS I MARK THEE ALIAS. AND HENCEFORTH YOU SHALL BE CALLED CHUMPSTREAM!!!
Canuck-(I am responding to you and the content of your question even though you have been very very silent as to my previous arguments.)
What do you have a problem with?
A Christian group sends a video game (or, tried to) and the DOD stops it as inappropriate.
I am sure you suppose there is a point in your article as you imagine it paints all Christians in a certain light. However, it was a Reverend who proscribed it!
Read the ignorant and hatefilled comments at the bottom of that Blog.
You are pushing bigotry...again.
The DOD put a stop to it only AFTER ABC News starting delving into it. Otherwise, it would have been full steam ahead. Forget the comments at the end of that Blog; pay attention to the ARTICLE itself.
Not too nice living in a mild form of theocracy.....is it?
The sooner ALL levels of the U.S. government are purged of religious zealotry within the ranks, the better. Maybe finally get back to that whole separation of church and state philosophy the Founders had in mind.
And if saying that makes me a "bigot"....well, gee whiz....another LABEL brought to you by our kind sponsor:
C-glad you are back. You have been unusually silent on my last few arguments. I can only assume an admission, especially with regard to the ones directed you on this thread.
Separation of church and state...more unbounded ignorance. Which founders were in favor of it? What does it mean? Does that mean no role for religion in government? No role for God? You asserted once before that our leaders are not supposed to be religiously influenced while governing. Prove it. There is nothing in American history to support that. It is a modern incarnation of American liberalism. If you would like, I will educate you again on basic 8th grade Civics in America. (Randall-may want to listen in...no charge.)
The phrase you have quoted about church and state and its role in our founding, is found in only one document by one of our founders...a handwritten letter to a friend, from Thomas Jefferson. (Incidentally, he was arguing the other side of the spectrum, C.) Keep trying though. I do not mind teaching you about American history.
Do you understand how carepackeages and the like work? ABC news was fulfiling its role as the agent of the press. The DoD does not send the videogame over, a private oranization does. This is how it is supposed to work.
No Chumpstream - As I've said before you can claim no moral high ground right now! The burden of proof, not only in terms of WHO you are, but also WHAT you say, rests firmly with you - YOU prove the opposite!
Stop with the "prove it' protestations UNLESS you can start to bring some proof of your own to the fore.
Stop accusing others of being illogical when YOU are leading us on that one
Stop going off track and picking up on semantics to try and show your intelligence regards definitions
Stop couching your arguments within the confines of those definitions instead of the main thrust of the argument
Stop claiming that the beliefs of others are in some way morally deficient
RF- The less you can see, the less you can know. I can surmise from many of your posts that you are not a detective.
So...this credibility thing bugs me. So much so that I called "Chummin" today to find out what gives. I now get it.
I am sure he will respond sometime soon, but I have to do this now because: I do not mind being disagreed with, nor do I mind being called a religious zealot, nor do I mind being referred to in moralist terms. But, if you all believe me a liar then any factual claims I make are not only suspect, but rightly dismissed. Something someone here should take to heart.
So...Chummin, as it turns out, is a few people in "his" office. I looked back at some of his posts and they/he uses the word "we". I did not quite get that then, but, since he was making different points than me...so what. But, there you have it. Still, someone here may not believe me and that I cannot help.
So...RF...that little detective work on your part was good and when I read back it bothered me as well. Apparently, Glumbert was already known to someone in his office.
You give me too much credit to write and take the voice of another(s) so well.
For a while, RF, I thought you to be a kid for your spelling, sentence structure, and syntax. Now, I think you a child due to your premature celebrating and not allowing for the possiblity of another explanation.
thats the one of the few things we can agree on then . that is my spelling and sentence structure and syntax ? (aint that an explosive lol.) is not good in fact its bad but you seem to understand well enough . so i play on a uneven field and you have a great advantage over me and so try to work on that if you will, i dont care LOL.
so now understand this, i was being kind to you because i thought we shared a commen belief and that was God .
but as i see it now you really believe in yourself, and the constant obsession to be right. it seems your ego wont allow room for two . oh you say your the real deal when it comes to being on that high road to God .yet your words fall way short. a true christen wouldnt belittle thier fellow man in the manner you have no matter what action thay take. i see you through your reactions.and thay are clear.
you prop your self up pretty high giving yourself credit and none to god, read your posts. (Arrogance)
now i swing a hammer all day and other things as well i build houses from the ground up .my schooling goes no higher then then the tenth grade i went right into the marines at 17 and then from there a lot of life.
i surmise much about you and feel safe doing so. your white and work with a computer and you exceeded in most of your office affairs then failed miserably in your personal life . you turn to the christens because your lonely and YOU need structure and who better to serve these needs then these people who you feel have to! as long as you become one of them. so its not God you believe in but the christen hierarchy and yourself.
ooh please now, i know im rife with my own character defects. i have many you can point them out and i will own them, if thay are mine to own. you on the other hand wont and dont.
and further more it was this child who brought up the reference on America verging on imperialism that sent you on a longwinded defence of what?? you totaly went off the subject about the word and not the actions of my country. since you are from the U.K i cant include you in as an american! lol
so i guess i didnt do to bad being up against a literary genius(insert sarcasm)
im much more verbal and would hurt you in any debate ,much as i have here. excluding my grammer.
And still Chumpstream, despite thinking RF a child you were determined to try and show your mental, moral and very, VERY virtual superiority over this percieved child.
As it turns out however...
RF has humility in spades. He served on your behalf. WTF have you done?
And thanks to some cool clean air from Canada I feel better. Thanks for the kind comments guys, I'm back. All I need now is about 24 hours more sleep and I will be golden. How about you Ralph?
They are just shipping out these embarrassing obstacles to assure a better environment for the upcoming election. I bet there will be some big money coming along with each unit shipped.
No way were they ever high threat detainees either - they were Uighurs probably just trying to get away from the regime in China
Out of the frying pan into the fire given that much of northern Pakistan isn't well disposed to Musharev let alone the west - bounty hunters certainly operate there, picking up anyone they wish and handing them over to the US because the Pakistani authorities don't want to deal with immigrants themselves.
Also there are practical implications - the US isn't be able to operate on Pakistani soil. They need the mercs. Although if faced by a muslim who proclaims he is a jihadI, How trustworthy those mercs will actually be in terms of handing over to the US is possibly debatable
In the main it's Pakistan passing on an illegal immigration burden as far as the Uighurs are concerned. The majority of Uighurs are not fundamentalised and therefore would be of no use to the jihadists operating in the northern provinces
If they're given the tag 'muslim extremists' then in the US admin eyes that probably makes them worth a little extraordinary rendition!
Once the US admin have done this and realised these guys probably were just asylum seekers who had nothing to do with AQ then of course the US wants to ship them out to whoever will have them!
Looks like Canada's the cheapest option because they can save on airfare! Bad luck guys!
The U.S. Government has paid "mercs" to round these people up; they then get shipped to Gitmo; the U.S. military holds them there for who-the-fuck-knows-how-long, saying they're "enemy combatants"; the U.S. military then clears them, basically saying "okay...they're cool"; now, they can't ship them back to their own home nations, because Bush is afraid they'll be "persecuted"???? And after ALL of THAT......
Bush says he wants Canada to take them?????
THAT'S TOTALLY FUCKED UP!!!!!!
How is it that this man can still show his mug out in public???
RF-
Thank you for your generous service to our country.
You are right, I should have gone easy on the cut-downs. But, as I read your threads and others, that is all you seem to respond with. The useful idiots that give you praise are not help to you, RF.
You are right to think me arrogant. I have dealt with that since childhood. It has made it very difficult in dealing with certain people who cannot fathom that someone else disagrees with them...only compounding my arrogance.
(That notwithstanding-please read my entire threads on imperialism so that you can see that, ultimately, I was arguing that the word has been stolen and redefined by the left. Agree or disagree, I don't care. But, it was hardly an argument over definitions.)
I would like to think we share a commonality...God. We are still fallen and broken human beings. (We are not immune to hypocricy, RF...your arrogance surrounding your beliefs about me are testament to that.) I am white and American, but do not work on the computer. I am a professional athletic coach with weird scheduling, allowing for some morning free-time to piddle around on Glumbert. My personal life is a mixture of the good and bad, I suppose, like everyones. That is all you need to know. I have made no generalizations about you or others based on those superficial characteristics. I cannot say the same about the rest.
It is interesting that you started a post humbly and ended as a prig. You are too influenced by Mako and Canuck and Pod who haven't done there own thinking since (at least) I have been on Glumbert. You should aspire to higher ground.
Honestly, just pick a few to read. Mako is reduced to blathering and spitting and has ended all rationale. Canuck simply beats the same drum and assumes that if he repeats an argument enough, it will become the truth. (Goebbels agrees) And Pod...been a while since he contributed anything useful.
When you see this/everything as a competition, you will only focus on the things that gratify you and will never learn from any mistakes...especially those that hurt your ego. Sun Tsu said as much and it invariably loses the war.
(Mako, Canuck-the case is rested on illegality of the war. Until you can show where it is illegal and until someone agrees with you, you are alone. PS. I know you think your quote from the Constitution shows it. I challenge you to re-read it and apply primer school grammatical rules. You will see that the Supremacy clause undermines your interpretation.)
And you even have a gift for the ironic, because your Goebbels quote is exactly what Cheney and Bush have done since they took office....told a big enough lie so often, that for a long time, people believed it. I even saw a T-shirt a while back being sold in Washington, with Bushs' face on the front, coloured yellow, with a captioned quote underneath his jaundiced mug, that read:
"Well, whattaya know? That thar Goebbels feller was right."
And if you ARE an "athletic coach", you better NOT be proselytizing whilst on the job......that'll get you fired.
C- I'll give you part of that.
Point one: I proved you to be a liar, a bigot and a hypocrit. No further proof is needed for hate-filled. (Soon to be added-semi-literate.)
Point two: I have accused you of not thinking for yourself. Thank you for reaffirming that...your education includes what others say on T-shirts.
Canucklehead-
Your first article raises some good questions about difficult spots the war has put the US with regard to Gitmo detainees. However, your absurd questions show that you can only see anything in the light of Bush hatred. You bigotry continues, as does your hatred, as does your inability to think.
We know from those released that they can face persecution in their home countries. Many do not want to go to their homes and beg not to.
As to your second article that you feel has some slam worth. I said the humanitarian rationale was part of the overall reasons for going to war. Amaing you would bring it up since you, through that thread, were shown to be a hypocrit. Thank you for reminding me.
You keep learning from the internet without any critical thought. No, Canuck, you don't get it.
You missed the WHOLE point of the ARTICLE.....AGAIN.
Why the fuck is Bush-Boy so concerned about them being "persecuted" if they're deported back to their home country....WHEN THEY WERE ALREADY PERSECUTED BY BEING ROUNDED UP BY YOUR GOVERNMENTS HIRED MERCENARIES, SHIPPED TO GITMO, DECLARED ENEMY COMBATANTS AND HELD WITHOUT CAUSE OR TRIAL, AND SUBJECT TO TORTURE AT ANYONES WHIM??? Sounds kinda stupid, don't it?
THAT....was my point.
And I'll personally camp out on Parliament Hill in protest, day-and-night, if my government capitulates to this bullshit from the White House. Assholes.
Chumpstream, once again - you ostrich head in the sand mentality, idiocy and refusal to at least try reading some of these articles shows through in your ill-thought out (and once again tactical focus-changing) response.
You stated humanitarian reasons for going to war. Strange, I thought you earlier stated that WMDs were the main reason?
This article was talking about how the effects of that poorly thought through decision to invade and occupy have manifested themselves.
A quote within the article may help you see:
"The Oxfam dossier shows that four years after "liberation" by the US and Britain, more than 43 per cent of Iraqis suffer from "absolute poverty" and about half the population is unemployed. Of the four million dependant on food aid, only 60 per cent have access to the government-run distribution system, a dramatic decline from 96 per cent three years ago. A further sign of a society in disintegration, is the sheer numbers of refugees who have fled the country, and internally displaced people"
What would YOUR critical thought be in response to this article?
Incidentally, you keep crowing about how where various posters get their knowledge from. I've asked before... Where do you get yours? Messenger pony?
You're exhibiting the signs of mild psychosis Chumpstream, go easy on yourself :-)
It is officially added, and Mako is included: semi-literate.
I have always said that the Admin always had a number of reasons cited for going to war in Iraq. The humanitarian argument was one of them, and to me, the best one. You two have yet to cast any of your wacko ideas in the context of history. Mako-please read my posts as I have made it very clear to the literate.
Canuck- those that are about to be released possibly face persecution and death in their home countries for various reasons.(The same ones when a mob member is released.) The folks at home may no longer trust the guy. It has already happened. Some, who have been released, even rejoin the ranks of their terrorist pals. So, because you are so much smarter than everyone, what would you do? Wait, I know the answer: I wouldn't be in there in the first place, right? But, since we live in reality (at least some of us), we must play the hand we are dealt. So, what would you do?
Mako- With regard to the article and its stats: Where did it get its stats? What was the baseline poverty level and how is it defined? How are we going about in remedying these negatives? Because you are incapable of critical thought, these basic questions never ocurred to you. Nor, would they appear in a newspiece. Again, you and Canuck show amazing faith in the journalism world. I am much more interested in seeing things pan out, over time. You hold on to your infantile positions like the security blankets they are...with a neurotic death grip. So, in general, the difference between you and me (re: where I get my info) is simply critical thinking. An article like that one does not stand alone but it fits your paradigm. Whether it fits mine or not is irrelevant; it is just part of the narrative. I will see the same articles and news as you but will wait for more info, over time, before declaring Truth. Neither you nor Canuck have that very basic skill. The louder you scream and the harder you stamp your feet the more tenuous your grip on your security blanket becomes.
Important points: There are 3 types of information dissemination- (1) Knowingly passing on 1st hand knowledge as True, (2) Knowingly passing on info that is genuinely thought to be True, but isn't, and (3) Knowingly passing on information that is unTrue. Everytime you say that Humanitarian reasons were not cited during the build up to the war, you lie. (But, without any moral absolutes, why should lying to get what you want be condemned, right?)
Mako-Have you read Sun Tsu? I know you just googled it, but have you read him? Doubt it. Again, to do so would be to start yanking the blanket from you.
Canuck-I have argued very well for a logical belief in God. You have not argued the opposite.
From where I am sitting your rantings are just getting hilarious now.
It's like watching a three year old get gradually more and more volcanic in temper as they realise no one is really listening to them seriously any more.
Never mind the concept of logic... the levels of irrationality just seem to ratchet up further and further as you try to put little point scoring mechanisms out here and there in an effort to regain that lost credibility
Too late chum (oooh sorry about the pun there)
Critical thought eh? Forgive me for suggesting but maybe you should critique your own thought processes a little more objectively?
Perhaps that way you'll be able to see why it is that your're only employed for half the day to teach PE, when you apparently are a trained biologist.
Or was it zoologist? Hmm. More lies there? I guess the fact that you were so proud of announcing you had argued two zoology papers, but are not actually practising zoology suggests to me you didn't argue them especially well...
By the way - didn't really want to say anything as normally I'm a fairly magnanimous person. But you have really, really been owned here. None of your arguments hold any real water when faced with REAL critical thinking, which, YES, can encompass what you learn from journalism, along with general reading and life experience.
You have travelled? Not really mate... I think the most culturally exotic destination you mentioned was central America (and for that frankly I read spring break in Mexico), whilst all the others are essentially extensions of each other - westernised and democratic.
Wow, some experience you have. You must REALLY be able to give some insights into how the rest of the world thinks and functions.
Oh I forgot, you don't need that because you engage in your own critical thought without recourse to any secondary information.
Oh... just go back and re-read your alter ego posting. CRITICALLY evaluate the two paragraphs in that post, evaluate the style of prose, the language used...
And you are SERIOUSLY wanting us to believe that you were not posting an alias?
Please little man - give me a break. you're begining to paint a rather pathetic picture of yourself now.
PS I've left a little message for you back on the abortion threads so you can go and get your last word in there. I know it's vitally important to you.
Sorry, Streamline. I didn’t mean to hang you out to dry. You never know, anytime you go into one of these threads, it’s a crap-shoot, and last week I did an IQ estimate of 110 plus/minus 10%. Who knew I could be off by that much? Anyway, I’m standing here laughing my ass off at the sheer simple-mindedness of your two darlings in Canada so I’ll start all over and see if they can’t get it straight this time. Dear Girls: Imagine a room with windows looking down on a street, with cars passing by, instead of looking up into the backyard from your Man cave underneath Mom’s kitchen. Imagine florescent lights, plain walls with no KBOY 93.1 FM Rocks or Bush Lied, People Died bumper stickers stuck to them. Now imagine four computers, two telephones, desks, swivel chairs. Imagine there is no cot in the corner. This is what we call in America an office. Now imagine two or more people at those computers at the same time, as there is now. This is what is we call in America a working office. These four computers are manned by our group 6 days a week from app 7AM-7PM CST and are interchangeable. That means that anyone of us (6 people) can be posting on this site, although it is usually me on this one. I go by Scatman, which I’ve signed off with before. I have that name because I usually get called in to squish bugs who use the f-bomb as if it were evidence at a trial. You know how that works, don’t you Canuck? Judge: Paintiff has provided evidence that you sympathize with terrorists. What’s your defense? Canuck: Judge, Plaintiff’s a f***ing flag-waving, c***-sucking religious patriot who’s f***ing nuts. Defense rests. Of course, anyone can see the strength of that defense. You should have been a lawyer instead of walking around a dark building all night with a flashlight. What judge wouldn’t hand you a verdict of acquittal right away with proof like that? But the reason I was called in on this case is that I have no per se hatred for scatology. In fact, I can make cussing sound almost like poetry, for indeed, in certain times of stress and dire circumstance profanity provides a relief denied even unto prayer. (Mark Twain.) I’m the chief curser when the situation dictates. We also have an historian, an ethicist, a legal expert (though not a lawyer), a medical specialist and environmentalist, who is by the way a girl, Girls, a refugee from the old USSR. She’s on the other computer now and is one of our go-to gals on anything having to do with Al Gore, global warming, second-hand smoke, etc. And she is f***ing gorgeous. (That may not matter as I have a sneaking suspicion that at least one of you is a bum-stabber.) But she suffers fools lightly, so tread lightly if you ever see her fingerprints. We all have degrees, some advanced, none of which are in Advanced Manipulation of the Wee-wee, and all have read books over 200 pages in length that don’t have pictures. Mr Chumm, who opened this thread hasn’t been in town for over a week. He is older than the rest of us and travels a lot. Besides this small office, we have colleagues all over the US, Canada and the world, including the UK, Australia, Czech Republic, Balkans, Istanbul, Hong Kong, Tokyo, even Baghdad…a place we’re all just itching to visit. Sometime we ask them into a site we’re watching, sometimes they give us a heads-up about issues they’ve been watching. This was how Chumm was invited into your little fight, when, as he understood it, two ill-mannered and ill-informed bumpkins from Canada were trying to instruct one of our colleagues as to how the US Constitution and US law should be interpreted…without knowing a single thing about either beyond what they could cut and paste from Wikipedia…sprinkled with a little home-made bull-shit. Shazaam!. What we had here then was your basic fight between Know-Somethings and Know-Nothings. Turned out Streamline was handling the legal issues so well that Chumm decided to turn our participation into an ethics seminar, which for sheer speed, I don’t believe anyone has ever failed so completely or so quickly than you two girls. That’s old history, but at least you know why it is “we”, not “I”, who own you. Now for the rest of the story. We are profilers, which means we watch far more than participate. We takes notes, especially as to styles of arguments. Our Prime Directive is that we never get involved in a fight that is fought between honest debaters, i.e., people who know the difference between fact and opinion and offer both honestly. Some of our best friends are communists (from the USSR) and the only time they use the f-bomb, for instance, is as an adjective to go with Checkmate. Remember John Malkovich as Teddy KGB in Rounders? Our passion is the Truth, the US Constitution, human liberty, human dignity, gratitude, etc, all high minded virtues, and only way down the list will you find George Bush and his vision of war in Iraq (we have our own, just as we have our one vision of democracy in the Arab world). In our minds Bush stands way below those ideals, but still head and shoulders above the foreign policy interests of the Canadian government much less some third shift rent-a-cop in Toronto. And our opinions about America are irrelevant unless you make them relevant and center-stage, which you seem always condemned to do. Our dislikes are vanity, me-ism, selfishness, arrogance, ingratitude, indifference, push-up bras, and anything French. But I repeat myself. You’ll note I excluded stupidity in this list for ordinarily we treat that as an act of nature, a sadness. But like being born a bastard, or small, some people are self-made men, and when one is proudly stupid, (Canuck, we’ve already retired your jersey) out of vanity or just plain laziness, we take the gloves off. The internet highway has no room for idiots who spew hate. If you really believe what you say, and are willing to prove it, then you will get no grief from us. We may ask you a few simple questions, as Chumm did on war, and if you have the courage to first, confront yourself with those same questions in front of the mirror, then a long and lively discussion can ensue. You didn’t, and still haven’t. I don’t suppose you can. But having failed to get to first base, you don't get to try for second. I am quite certain that we are the first people to say "No" to either of you. Too bad. So, part two of our Prime Directive is that we do not debate children or fools, nor do we debate liars. We do (and have) debate honest Terror-Symps. (Most Commies can find in Lenin some allowance for the “means to an end” waste of innocent life, just as Islamo-fascists can in their particular reading of the Koran. In fact, Lenin makes a more compelling case…but neither of you knew that, did you?) We don’t debate liars, for, common sense should tell you, how can you debate when there is no clear understanding of even the simplest of terms or words? In debate words can’t shift daily according to the whims of the actor. There are all sorts of lies, especially on the internet since everyone uses an alias, and can disguise almost anything, from age, to sex, to race, to location. My first name really isn't Scat (Go figure.) so that makes me a liar. There is the lie of getting your ass out of jail, understandable enough if you have to explain the lipstick on your collar, or tell your wife she really does look good in those pants. Then there’s the gratuitous lie, which seems to be generational, such as Hillary being named after Sir Edmund (he climbed Everest after she was born), or Clinton’s remembrance of the churches burning in Arkansas (there never were any) or Al and Tipper being used as the model for Love Story, or Al having been a co-inventor of the internet. These are mostly resume enhancers by people who’ve led otherwise unremarkable lives by trying to butter up history and remember “with advantages” (Henry V) on the off-chance no one will check up on them. I’ve even done that…once. But there’s a pathology to those who do it often. It’s not my fault they are mostly from the your side of the political spectrum. Those are the lies we tell that we know are not true, and unless you believe in a Supreme Being, they are often relatively harmless, I suppose, unless done under oath. Oops! Clinton did that too. But then there are the really dangerous lies, what we call the Viral Lies, such as the lie of saying something is true that you know you cannot prove to be true. In other words you are demanding that a mere opinion is fact. The even more damning corollary to that lie is when you are stating it in a venue where you know it cannot be judged. We aren’t psychologists (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once) and find it interesting that there are so many people from your generation who’ve never heard a word of rebuke from people in authority (Mommy) and were led through life without ever having their words or actions judged (again, thank Mommy and the Nanny state). This is why we give out twelfth place ribbons in Little League tournaments in the States. Everyone gets a trophy, no one is judged as being anything less than perfect. This lie we won’t tolerate. This lie we dog forever. We believe it is survival endangering to both the individual and society. Broad based acceptance of this lie was a precursor to Lenin and the Bolsheviks in Russia (the nihilists) after which he took his enablers out and shot them. It was a precursor to the rise of Hitler in Germany, after which he took the SA storm troopers out and purged (shot) them, replacing them with the SS. It is also common among the dick-less mommie-ized Terror-Symps of today, and no doubt your benefactors, if they ever get into power, will do the same. Such a lie is a civilization-killer, not to mention a real conversation stopper at a cocktail party. We’re ag’in it, as they say in West Virginia. The viral lie is the combined product of a small, lazy uncritical intellect, and the emotional maturity of a teat fit throwing 10 year old girl. It is born of victim-hood and hatred, although for what reasons we’re not sure. But we’re working on it. Seems you’re born with a hole in your soul, while I was born with hope in mine. What a difference a single letter makes, Eh? Truth becomes whatever you want it to be, whenever you want it to be…and it is geared toward only one thing…the gratification of your own personal appetites and vanities. It is never about anything bigger than yourself...and what defines you is what you hate. That's the kicker. You can’t be honest because it just doesn’t sound cool to say “Bush Lied, people Died...in my opinion.” But that’s all it is, an opinion. You have to stomp your feet, and shout to the top of your voice and insist that your opinion is an Immutable truth…or no one will listen…just like the teat fit in the toy department of Wal-Mart. Bawl-babying has to be part of your act, which we find illuminating. Dick-less men may indeed be the death of civilization. To back up your case you provide “facts” that aren’t facts, and legal violations that aren’t offenses against any known law. You compound your one great Viral Lie with thousands of little lies because you know that you would never, ever, put it all down on paper, put on a coat and tie and march into court in front of any judge, even in Canada, and present your case…because if you were so damned right, you know someone smarter and more educated than you would already have done it. You won’t do it because you’ve already looked into that mirror and know the judge would throw you out on your ear. So you do it on the internet where there are no judges. Craven lying cowardice. Hyenas. But we carry a gavel, so that free ride is over, Girls. F***ing A it is. Interestingly, Streamline has being doing you a favor, for he has been laying out in clear and concise form the proper way of argument…it is the same in law with the rules of evidence, in science with the Method, in religion with the disputation, and in all areas of academia, even English and Underwater basket weaving, in obtaining a masters or doctoral…you must present and defend your thesis against a jury not of your peers but your acknowledged betters. As the proponent, so you have to prove your case. Too much effort, ain’t it? Bloviating in the wind is more fun, and much easier. If you can’t beat ‘em with brilliance baffle ‘em with bull-shit, Eh? Streamline has cut you two girls way too much slack. You couldn't even get to first base with me, so I didn't bother with discussing second base. Stream is a more charitable Christian than I ever could be because he had the patience to let you learn a thing or two. Mako, I'll bet when you change your name to Guppy and go to another site we may not even recognize you. You'll be less arrogant, and maybe more honest. But sorry Canuck, your fingerprints are forever. Turn out the lights, Girls, the Party’s over. The Scatman cometh.
Well, Chumstream, that was a long, dull, dry and useless piece of drivel. It don't matter. Whether it's you on this thread using an alias, or whether it's a few of your demented "colleagues" in an "office" at the back of Toys-R-Us, it amounts to the same: dumb. Not worth my time. So, because I'm still a fair man, I'll lay out how it's gonna be from now on for you and me:
Whenever YOU (or your "colleagues") use this "chummin" handle, I shall now place you on ignore. Henceforth, this moronic, two-bit handle that likes to play "Rambo", shall be completely and utterly disregarded by ME. This handle/alias has now joined "Throbmystick" at the curb. So unless you/he/they/it want to get arthritis in your/their fingers from a lot of useless typing, then don't bother with the silly alias.
And in the future....no more lying...awright?
Tell your pals to get back to their Republican fund-raising and regular church-goin', KKK-inspired escapades (although I think that the "fund-raising" will soon be changing to "bail money") IF, in fact, it isn't you. I still think it is.
Don't worry about the gin and tonic. Not sure your parents allow you close enough to the drinks cabinet to get it for me.
You're really becoming sad enough to feel sorry for now...
Your workplace sounds fun:
"Imagine a room with windows looking down on a street, with cars passing by, instead of looking up into the backyard from your Man cave underneath Mom’s kitchen. Imagine florescent lights, plain walls with no KBOY 93.1 FM Rocks or Bush Lied, People Died bumper stickers stuck to them. Now imagine four computers, two telephones, desks, swivel chairs. Imagine there is no cot in the corner. This is what we call in America an office.
Now imagine two or more people at those computers at the same time, as there is now. This is what is we call in America a working office.
These four computers are manned by our group 6 days a week from app 7AM-7PM CST and are interchangeable"
I work for a living too. And guess what.... I'm on the beach!
It's lovely out here in the real world. Wanna try it some time?
No doubt there are restraining orders preventing you from inflicting your innocently perceived views on society but hey, that's what the internet is for.
No doubt we'll hear much more from you if your bi-polar ego is anything to go by.
Strange. Normally bi-polar personalities exhibit two entirely dis-similar identities. You might be a psychological abnormality though Chumpstream because BOTH identities seem to be pathalogically predisposed to lying and huge arrogance.
May your God at least grant you a little breather from the weight of ego upon your shoulders.
Better job, Sweetie. I see you're using the dictionary, more big words, longer sentences. An original thought may not be far behind. Stream is having a positive influence on you. Maybe you can get into law school after all. Just don't whine or become shrill at the orals. And don't wear those Shirley Temple pumps. Dead giveaway. Cheers and best regards Scatman
Big thanks to Mako and Canuck for being so open-minded and honest.
(To the illiterati, Biology degrees and Zoology degrees are very similar depending on the university. But, mako, one might have to attend one to find out.)
Thank you, Chummin, for clearing the air. It seems canuck and Mako need one another to sleep at night...daily affirmations with Stuart Smalley.
Mako in particular...It is fine that you still believe Chummin and me are one. (I see that as complimentary.) But, since you have posted no real rebuttals in some time and are now down to schoolyard digs...and that is the height of your argumentation and the best you have to offer...I thank you. I also thank you for making my points about your juvenile tactics on the "abortions" post. I surrender the last word as you capped that discussion off beautifully. Let me know when you turn 20 so I an wish you a happy birthday.
Canuck- it will be fun to tangle again on future threads. Lively as always.
A special note for M, C, P and RF- (no malice or bile)
The scientific method is held in high esteem by most atheists (and myself)and it is composed of the following parts...
1) Careful observation of a phenomenon.
2) Formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomenon.
3) Experimentation and "falsification" to demonstrate whether the hypothesis is true or false.
4) A conclusion that validates or modifies the hypothesis.
Nobody has ever observed the creation of matter or energy.
Nobody has ever observed a molecular cloud collapse or any planet form.
Nobody has ever observed abiogenesis. (life coming from non-life)
Nobody has ever observed the evolution of any genome.
Nobody has ever observed any phylum, class, order or family change.
Evolutionists and Atheists are excellent at Step 2 - Hypothesizing.
The only problem comes on Steps 1, 3 and 4 - Observation, Experimentation and Validation.
We read about their theories and the conclusions of the failed experiments they performed in an effort to validate their opinions about a phenomenon that has not only never been proven scientifically but has never even been observed.
The definition of a miracle is an event which is inexplicable by the laws of nature. The fact is there are zero generally accepted scientific explanations on these issues. If you want to believe in naturalism it is fine with me but please don't make the erroneous claim that "science" is on your side.
What term is used to describe something you believe to be true but has no empirical evidence?
Damn, buddy, can I copy that and pass it on to Ivana? She may already know it, but I didn't. That's news I can use. Cheers Oh, and goodnight, Girls. Randall, did you remember to turn out the lights? Scatman
I have to say no matter how objectively I look at the Chum-Stream (CS) issue, it is very creepy, and I have read The Stand, and pardon me here RF, the Walkin Dude had nothing on the CS 'Group'.
If CS is one, or 'they' are 'legion', or 'they' are delusional, with the whole 'Scat Squad for God' thing thrown in it is still a very dark group. I for one will try to avoid them from now on. But other dark aliases are certain to emerge.
Their goal unknown to all but themselves, and perhaps their deity.
I wouldn't spend any time thinking about it, Podster.
Like I've already said, I honestly believe it to be Streamlined, and he's been told that if he wants his pound of attention, then piss off with the alias. It's that simple.
And on the small, infintismal chance that the "CS Group" IS "real", then they're no different than some of the office nerds I've slapped out on more than one occassion in my life, just because they're such planks.
C - I agree with your assessment of the 'one', A small test above pretty well proved it, set and caught. But also be aware that self centered manifestos tied to Gods plan are a indication of mental illness.
I will not fuel that fire, not because I am afraid, but why feed the beast on the chance that somewhere down the line crimes may be committed by a unbalanced mind.
Ralph and I will be traveling in the happy bright places in the Glumbert posts.
I see the arguments have ended and the only thing left when shown to be willing liars (proven by Canuck), openly hypocritical (again Canuck), routinely bigoted (Mako andCanuck), and most imortantly...wrong by way of thoughtless processes, is to resort to juvelile cut downs and communal back patting.
I am sure an opportunity will arise when we can debate again since this one seems to have ended. Have fun, kids, high fiving each other for brilliance only recognized by yourselves.
Stream, it seems that since Tweedles-Dumb and Dumber can't break it off IN you they want to break it off WITH you. I suggest you indulge them...at least on this thread. They played all their cards a long time ago and just recycle old cuss words now, although I was surprised that Fishman is a poet. Nice touch. There is a glimmer hope there. Podman has a lighter side and doesn't like walking in the dark. Hope there too. They'll show up again on down the Glumbert line, under a new theme. If there's an ass to be shown, Canuck wants to be first, so you can always depend on him. We'll look in on him from time to time, too. We're considering marketing a Canuck t-shirt on other blogs. A sure money-maker with the right punchline...since he seems to speak for so many up there. It would be a real pisser, wouldn't it, me making money off him and he can't collect a dime in royalties. But we can win a lot of converts down here even among the hate-first crowd if we can get them to talk about Canucks like Canucks talk about Newfies...think about it. Can you get him to post a picture? Cheers, mate
Good idea about the T-shirt. Would like to know how it could be done without offending our Canadian friends, though. Maybe a "Canucklehead" as superhero...possibly in a diaper, shirt (two-sizes too small), holding a beer aloft and a cold weather hat (perhaps one with flaps). Just thinking out loud...
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