You're right. A picture does not convey the truth. I guess he's using the images to allow you to make the connection with what we have seen over happen over the last 7 years.
Point no.2 at the end says "long incarceration of prisoners without charges".......... can anybody say David Hicks???
Point no.4..... Huge amounts of wasted money get pumped into Bush's war, while the health system becomes the laughing stock of the world.
Point no.6..... You all complain about the Fox network like it is some huge conspiracy when a controversial video gets posted. None can argue that point...
Point no.7..... The fear of God has been pumped into the American citizens once again around this time of year because it is approaching 9/11. Comments like "attacks are iminent" and "we have high indications from intelligence of an attack" get thrown around. Pffffftt, can you trust the same intelligence that said there were positively WMD's....
I could keep going but I think no.14 is the main one, GW only got in coz there wasn't really much of a choice, the voters got shafted bigtime.
isn't democracy great??? this idiot is allowed to call americans fascists without any retribution from the country.....a fascist country would hunt him down.....must be nice to call people names without proof......
It's a new, smarter form of fascism where to lock someone up would prove it and make him a martyr. Better to alienate him and call him "un-american". Otherwise you couldn't run around calling yourself "the land of the free".
as far as I'm concerned, most politicians either need a dick in their mouth or one in the ass....I'm voting for the guy from Law and Order whether he runs or not.
I would never imagine that someone whose handle is GeorgeW would happen to subscribe to his ideals. Do you happen to be one of those Americans who tells others to "like it or leave"? Just a guess.
What College is this Professor Britt working at these days? I can't find anything other than other propoganda he has written and that his name seems to be "Laurence" not "Lawrence"
A small detail, but illustrates the point that this guys may have heard this and gotten all stirred up. Without really thinking things through.
The big difference between the Bush Admin. and real facism is that that the secret police have note beaten him with a rubber hose for posting this. Then again...
I am glad that some people out there are trying to hold the Executive Office accountable, but how about writing your Congressmen next and getting them to do the same! Why elect democrats if they are going to act like such twats? Blogging and poorly edited videos are great, but how about getting your ass off the soft chair in the coffe shop and holding ALL your elected officials accountable.
I have to start planning for my fantasy football draft, so I hope someone does the heavy lifitng for the rest of us.
I guess it's time for some more totally useless info.....
The only three presidents that had to deal with actual or impending impeachment...Andrew Johnson...Richard Nixon...Bill Clinton...all have names that are euphemisms for "penis" Johnson, Dick and Willie!
mitercut, i dont see you shooting the passload framer gun out there , do that with ........ i dont know something like a laborer who ruins your brand new wood chisel's lol lol lol..................no for real i have one in mind.
FASCISM: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race (both parties do this when convenient) above the INDIVIDUAL (definately a liberal stance) and that stands for a centralized autocratic government (even more liberal) headed by a dictatorial leader (both parties would love this) severe economic and social regimentation (can you say social security, medicare, "universal" healthcare, progressive taxation, affirmative action) and forcible suppression of opposition (again, both parties try this)
At least be intillectually honest when you start throwing around words like "fascism" or "nazi". At the very least, know the damn meaning of the word.
"centralized autocratic government (even more liberal)"
Wow, so the conservatives are suddenly the champions of a weak federal government? You sure as hell could have fooled me. Seems like they love to use it to enforce their beliefs and policies on the rest of us. Just like liberals do.
The tools that the government uses to advance its cause is not dependent on the ideology of those running it. There have been leftist and rightist governments which have used fascist principles in order to stay in power.
I don't disagree droofus. My comment was directed to show exactly that. This video makes it out that only conservatives have the potential to be fascists. And, like it or not, right now in this country liberals are the ones advocating more federal government interference than conservatives. And yes, I do want turbo christians to stay the hell out of my life just as much as I want the damn government out of my life.
And reddwarf, i am sure you never made a typo, right?
When Al Queda comes to cut his throat he may reconsider.... Or maybe he is a muslim already? Hmmmm...... Obvious left Democratic material. Did GW steal the election or what (can you say sore LOOSER) Or maybe just looser... More tired liberal tedium!
Al Queda just around the corner ready to slit his throat at the closet opportunity? Must be a Muslim because he criticises his government? Americans are just sore losers because their electoral system resembles Swiss cheese? C'mon mate, you sound like a cliche. Back to the 50's.
yes i hate erica to she gave me the cla.................oh you hate America,oooohhh ahaaaaaaaaa, i see the differance.... yaaa america ... no, nope sorry cant help you out.
as he stubs out his clove and kicks at the poodel that scampers between his legs spilling his caffe latte .yelling as he does YOU STUPIT AMERICANS IATE CHU ALLLLL.....
Flagg, I used to simply read your posts based on my love for Stephen King. Now, I just read them cause they are guaranteed to make milk shoot out of my nose ;-)
WOW the liberalism is extreme and if you do not like this country then get the hell out. Yes, I am a patriot and I fought for your rights to be an ass.
G.K. Chesterton: "My country, right or wrong" is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying "My mother, drunk or sober."
I feel sorry for you soldier. What exactly did you fight for? Where did you fight? You might try a different line like "if you don't like this country then change it..." that's more the American Way that we ALL fight for. Whether the fight is over-seas or at home it's still a fight.
Lastly... soldier boy... do you enjoy being a tool of the elite ruling class that runs this country? Do you really believe all that stuff the military tells you?
What did you learn over-seas? Have you ever killed someone face to face, looked them in the eye and took their life? Was he a father, brother, son just like you? What was his life like? What was he fighting for?
You should read up a little on why we really fight.
Herman Goering: "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
WOW! - Very very good. This shows how nothing really changes. But maybe, just maybe, this internet, this new democracy of thought will begin the change. We have to have some hope.
Just makes you think and understand that sometimes we cant prevent all occurance's of things to come..No one saw it put we have people dieing because of actions of others...but without war we would not be MEN and sometimes that is the outcome of a country as we are..Peace is what we say we fight for but there is always a selfish reason behind it
Liberal misinformation and propaganda.
Some of these "signs" of facsism are pretty shaky.
Flags everywhere? WOW!!!
So how much disdain do we have as a nation for human rights? The example he shows is the Abu Gharab prison, where the perpetrators were tried in court and found guilty. NOBODY LOOKED THE OTHER WAY!!!
I could go on and on...
People have to be REAL desparate to make comparisons between the USA and Nazi Germany. WHY DO THEY DO SUCH THINGS??? What is the political agenda behind this liberal misinformation?
I disagree with atributing this sort of disinformation and hate propaganda to liberals. I don't know any liberals who would in any way support this sort of thing. That's not to say I don't know people who would agree with this sort of attack propaganda, just that they're not liberals. Liberals by definition are open minded and tolerant, as are most pious religions. So the question is, who benefits by defaming, liberals, moderate conservatives, and all religions?
Why do they do such things? Because once again Americans find them selves at war in another country. Their own troops slowly dropping. Even when not at war they are told of enemies they must fight ideologically. The military budget never goes down - only up. Who's making the bucks? America with all its might could be seen as a powerful, benevolent peacemaker but for its actions which portray it as a school yard bully. There will be those "patriots" who will say "right on" to these tactics, believing that to strut is to intimidate and thus avoid conflict. But Americans are now waking up to the fact that this behaviour only invites it.
"What is the political agenda behind this liberal misinformation?"
Ask yourself if you have already been manipulated into either the "Liberals are ruining the country group", or the "Conservatives are ruining..." group.
"We the people of these United States" will determine the future of this nation, not the corporate plutocracy. This video is over the top at this point, but will it be over the top in 2010? It is the common sense center of America that will save us from the manipulation to extremes. GWB and his wealthy friends are Dividers (Divide and conquer).
Let's get together as a people, and stop bending to the propaganda of the wealthy elite, join together and set a course for a brighter future, for ourselves and our children.
The filmmaker may be a fearful citizen. Not a "Liberal", or a "Conservative", or some Other scapegoat. Maybe, this was just to remind us that it can happen here too. The future guarantees nothing, but change, but what will that future be?
fascism and corporate rule of a government and country are the natural result of unbounded and un-regulated capitalism with no accountability to the people who run the corporations. I love capitalism, I'm a capitalist myself... but, we still need a certain amount of accountability and integrity in the gov'tment and among individuals... neither of which we have much of right now. Sad.
Agreed. Capitalism is the only way, but you have to have some sort of regulations and consequences to those who control the companies. Obscure kind of point, but look at "Lord of the Flies" — people aren't basically good; they are forced to be good by society's restrictions. So put some restrictions on them, for god's sake, and we'll see a little bit more "honesty" and "integrity"...
And then we can all rejoice in a non-fascist society...
No, wait, we'll still be nationalistic — if waving a flag is considered patriotism that's gone too far. (Hey, let's burn the flags, that will solve it!)
if you ain't Canadian then you suck? isn't that right Billy? Fuck balls, miter, douche, randall, throb, devious, wolf, and the rest of you yank bastards.
For all of you about to condemn this statement, look CAREFULLY at the sender. Not Canuck1963 but Canock 1963. Nice try there Mr. waste-o-space. Back to your lonely cubicle with your left hand for company.
Canuck, Randal, Mako, Pod and all the non-fucking-psycho-freaks on the site. I have had enough of the bullshit passed around by the low life contingent here. Used to be enjoyable to debate and just pass the time but the scum have taken over. I'm done. You can have the site ALL TO YOUR USELESS SELVES. Sit around and talk like big men with small dicks all you want. Soon you'll end up with what you started with......loneliness. So in closing, lick my balls and rot in hell.
How the hell did I get into this post stream? So I'm a yank bastard? lol you know nothing scumtard, you aren't even witty like the one's you try to imitate, from me to you asshole, fuckoff and pop yourself so you die slow (use a small caliber just above and back of the temple) you'll look so silly squirming around and gurgling on the floor ha ha ha I can picture you now..oh yah I've seen the future (ok I feel better know)
(Lookit the name above that started this thread, that got you so worked up...ahhh...it ain't me...lol.....sorry, but that's all some folks got to work with.)
Wow! Don't think I've seen Billy this upset before. Sounds like he's quitting Glumbert. That's ok, he'll go through withdrawls and be back in a few days.
If you need Billy, I can research and maybe get you set-up in a local chapter of Glumbert's Anonymous.
It just shows that he's got integrity, and he's a decent man.
You HAVE heard of those traits...haven't you?
"Decency"? "Integrity"?
Of course, SOME intellectually-inferior pukes around here, seem to think that those qualities are free to get tossed aside, just because they're at a keyboard and on whatever-website; although personally, I don't think they had those traits to begin with.
C -Ya know I was feeling like Bill yesterday too. Maybe there was something in the air.
I was ranting at my boss about how screwed up the country is with all the crap that is going on, and how all that crap has finally started to reach me, and screw up my life, and is screwing up the lives of a lot of good hard working people I know... etc.
I was really ranting away. But I think the cause was this:
When we discuss these important issues with clarity and real heart it begins to affect us. And, maybe like me he has not slept for three days because it is hot and, maybe his Air Conditioner died too. But I think he has to get away for a while do some fishing.
FUCK POLITICS ALL YOUR POLITICS OR ANYONE INVOLOVING POLITICS HAS OFFICALLY SUCKED MY PHAT AND FAT HORRENDOUS FILTHY HAIRY STD INFECTED OOOZY GREEN COCK
You have such an admirable command of the english language...so well spoken...glib, but not too sharp, poignant, and so perfectly expressed...it must be difficult to manage the adulation you garner as a result of this incredible skill. Would that you only held the intelligence of the bug that seems to have crawled up your anus...perhaps you might then be understandable at some primordial level.
1. power and continuing nationalism.
(isn't that pariotism? even liberals consider themselves patriots... uh, right?)
2.disdain for the recognition of human rights.
(i agree with this one... americans should stop humiliating prisoners of war by forcing them to pose for pictures depicting what the enemies see as the lowest of low... homosexuals. instead we should employ their humane methods of decapitation and torture.)
3.identifying enemies or scapegoats as a unifying cause.
(hmmm... kinda like what this poorly made leftist propaganda video is attempting to do?)
4.supremacy of the military.
(funny one, this... i guess we would have been better off fighting hitler with an untrained, undersupplied army. maybe our navy and marines should have used single shot muskets against the imperialist japanese, or the fascist italians of wwll. i guess we could avoid criticism by using 19th century weapons against terrorists. we should be ashamed!)
5. rampant sexism.
(last i heard, hilary clinton was a leading candidate for the presidency. AND SHE VOTED FOR THIS WAR!)
6.controlled mass media.
(i'm sick of bush and cheney pushing their weight around and forcing the media to story after story depicting them as bumbling hillbillies with the lowest approval ratings since jimmy carter.)
7. obsession with national security.
(14 million illegal immigrants! enough said.)
8.religion and government are intertwined.
(according to this rule, hitler and stalin were not fascists. they both banned religion from all government functions and facilities. wimpy dictators!)
9. corporate power protected.
(corporations provide labor. protect the giver, you, in turn protect the receiver. kinda common sense, i thought.)
10. labor power is suppressed.
(see above... and don't forget, we have the largest, most powerful labor unions in the world. all payed for by the workers.)
11. disdain for intellectuals and the arts.
(who are the intellectuals? bush graduated from yale. what do you mean by the arts? this country boast the largest music and movie industries in the world. by the way, hitler loses fascist points here, too. he was an artist!)
12. obsession with crime and punishment.
(yeah, only fascists want to convict murderers, rapists, robbery suspects, child molestors etc... mean, mean fascists!)
13.rampant cronyism and corruption.
(you mean, kinda like the foster MURDER during the clinton administration? you mean the bombing raids in the middle east after the monica lewinski scandal? i agree with this one.)
14. fraudulent elections.
(i did NOT vote for bush. i think bush is the worst president this country has ever had. but if liberals can't figure out how to punch the right hole in the voting ballot, IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!)
I agree with you to a certain degree, videocritic. But I think you will find that in today's world, you can define any "nation" or "administration" as such. In any time of "war" (I'm using this term lightly) you will find that people rally around the flag and nationalist tendencies become augmented.
C-
Sorry you had to see those folks. The do not nor have not ever been representative of any majority in America.
Ironic-you can't wait for them to get marginalized for good...that's exactly what they think of you.
It's a very pertinent question. You clearly are quick to stereotype those that you cannot identify with, and thus they must be inferior. The truth be known is that you have the inferiority complex in the real world so you mitigate those feelings by transgressing into a persona on the internet which is not that of your true identity. You are tired of getting sand kicked in your face in life, so you TRY to do it to others on the virtual world.
BTW, That was you me and my cousins, brothers, and uncles scared away?
Me? I "stereotyped"? I have an "inferiority complex"? Ummm....riiiiight.
'Scuse me, while I go back through the last gazillion posts, where YOU and a small like-minded few, have done nothing but level broadsides at another nation altogether, as well as "stereotyping" the whole lot who live in it.
And going back to my original point, what do we have HERE?
Why, bless my whatever-passes-for-a-soul!!
It's Mr. I.M.A. Douchebag, Esq., defending (!) these folks, by saying I'm "stereotyping" them! Nice.
Seems I'm a little more correct about YOU, than vice-versa.
The whole point is that you try to tap-dance just about everything, and try to reverse everything to shift the focus off yourself. Some may think your good at the smoke in mirrors game, but we were not talking about me sterotyping it was you. You can't simply answer one simple question, and you still haven't.
Go ahead and say I do the same. Blah blah blah. I will not deny it, however you can't admit it.
What exactly did I "tap dance" around? Did you fall down and hit your head today?? You admitted you're a stereotyping bigot. Good. It's a start. Maybe we'll be able to get somewhere now. Now what was it I'M supposed to admit?? You better rephrase your so-called "question", because the way you typed it above, made absolutely NO sense at all.
"Smoke and mirrors"??? LOLLOLOL
Jeeeeeezus.
Not really sure what kind of issue you're trying to create here, but I'll try to keep up. But I gotta tell ya...you're givin' me vertigo.
A simple yes or no would have sufficed, but you are such a bonehead you can't even do that. Don't even attempt to answer the question because your ramblings speak for themselves.
How does not denying something translate into admitting it? If I tried to deny it you would have a beknighted response. So please let out your "intellectual" disdain and share with the rest of us. I can't wait to hear this.
(The problem with advertising - The mind control debate begins.) I am going to rant here please be patient.
In America we are subjected to the most sophisticated advertising in history. It continues to escalate in complexity, and vigor, as the entities who have something to gain try to dig ever deeper into our minds.
The sad truth is that advertising works, and it works very well at controlling us. We all think we are immune, but we are not. It does effect our thinking, in just about everything. The corporations, PACs, and governments know this, and use it.
Why does America have problems with Obesity, Education, Health Care, Drugs, Energy, etc.
Example: Drugs. Every day Pharma continues to advertise drugs that are only available by prescription! Why would they do this? We cannot just go buy these drugs OTC. Why does the FDA allow this? Why does the FDA fast track new drugs? Why does the news media softball Pharma on the real issues. Why does congress blather about pharma, and yet they do nothing. What is the answer to obesity? Well what do you know a new drug on the fast track, being advertised in a breaking story presented as NEWS, and around it goes.
What is the connection between Government, Media, and Corporations? ( ? )
The wealthy elite have us right where they want us. Controlled on all fronts and thinking just what they want us to think. Is there anyone in power at any point that matters, that is not at least a millionaire? They move from their privileged childhood, to their privileged schools, to their privileged jobs, and have their privileged children. Now repeat, and make certain none of the peasants interfere with the whole damn thing.
Where do we peasants begin to have some effect on the system. 1) Do everything we can to keep the rich from getting any richer. 2) True representatives of the people should not be millionaires. 3) Promote and support small businesses in your town. 4) When watching a commercial (STOP) and ask why am I being told this, who is saying it, and where is the profit. 5) Shrink the useless government.
pod very good queston im gonna answer it as soon as wolf down these three cheesburgers with ham and bacon i have eat quick my dope dealer on his way over.and that ulcer is back, but im to tired to do any thing about.
oh yes i forgot....derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... lol
If a couple fights had gone the 'other' way George Washington would have been hung by his king.
My point? America was based on questioning thier Rulers and changing things to, what they concidered, better. Now it seems, to me at least, that questioning the leaders of that same nation is concidered, unpatriotic(sp?).
I'm NOT going to bash the USof A, they have LOTS to brag about, and the VAST majority of their population are normal people, just like the rest of the world.
I am going to mention that ANY country that cannot question their leaders openly, is on a slippery slope. And worse, any country that allows the people to question the leaders and then the people DON'T EVEN BOTHER, is just askin' for trouble.
My only bitch about this whole thing is NON-Americans 'bashing' and 'bad-mouthing' the USA.... American should be, and encouraged to, question THIER leaders and change what they want to, to BETTER AMERICA FOR AMERICANS!! Unless your country is directly being oppressed by Uncle Sam, shut UP and fix your own COUNTRY first.
It's time for the planet to "Clean up your own backyards, before you go knocking on your neighbours door." If you don't like the USA, don't buy thier stuff, don't watch thier shows, don't help their economy in ANY way.
And as a CANADIAN!! I know MY country could use some 'reformatting' long before we get on a soapbox and try telling other nations how to live.
(please note I am aware that I can't spell, I'm a talker not a typer)
Good points-
However, is there someone suppressing the questioning of our leadership and/or discouraging the questioning? I am not aware of any such danger down here.
The death to the anti-war protestors banner shown in the video might be a bit of a suppression. The Dixie Chicks banner, and the flak they took might be another example. It is not the Stasi bursting into your home in the middle of the night and I think the video is exaggerating the situation, but it is a worrisome trend that Americans try to stifle dissent by labelling people as unpatriotic.
pipedog loved your comment agreed with most all of it.
i have the utmost respect for George Washington, a bright spot for my country and its short history i believe as you had said if things went a little differnt he may have hung.
but not by HIS king. he had NO king . Washinton for a long period was a man with out a country so there for he had no king. like many of his friends and colleagues he also made a choice and he chose well. as providence was with him.
i say this only because i have read so much about the man and i felt i owed him that. LOL
podman, i appreciate you going to and producing info straight from the source (credible media, which by the way, helps to illustrate my point that the current administration does not control mass media) however, nothing in any of your links disproves anything i laid out.
i refuse to sink to your level by resorting to juvenile rants and leave you with this advise...
As I stated in previous links I think it is to easy for power to force us via some prejudice or fear to blame every problem on a scapegoat, as a means of avoiding a real conversation about real issues.
My links and my rant were 'Engineered' by me to answer a specific question I had about the American public. Yes - I was a little test. Are we all just regurgitating what we are told, so that we do not have to take on the REAL burden of individualized thought.
If Americans cannot speak anonymously to power, and perhaps the real issue of a declining freedom, then where are we?
Only Pipedog spoke with courage to the focal point of my issue. No rancorous spew about "conservative", "Liberal", "Gay", "TWATS", etc scape goats. Anybody can reiterate with complete lack of courage the points that the power base allows, and encourages. Like a dog in a pack, it takes no courage to back a system with which you agree.
It takes real courage to speak truth to power, and if you cannot see it, or try it, then we are not really free. I wanted to move the conversation about the problems in America to the forefront so that they have a chance to be solved. If you are going to continue to blame every problem on the liberals or the conservatives or the sanctioned magic scapegoats then nothing will be accomplished.
I want America to solve the very important problems that we have. Is it American to want improvement for our Education, Health, Infrastructure, etc, or does that make me a Terrorist?
But I'm just a juvenile TWAT that will hopefully be silenced by rancorous rhetoric, and not civil discourse. Thats the American way right?
"All it takes for evil to flourish, is for good men to do nothing" - Edmond Burke
I've just observed a small % of folks in the USA ,that enjoy 'shouting down' , any and all negative comments/opinions concerning the ruling class. I've also noticed that this small % gets a LARGE amount of 'face time' with the media, this combo could, and I think does, discurage some people from voiceing thier opinion.
Up here , I think, our biggest problem is apathy. This could be our downfall....
but... what to heck do i know...really... opinions are like assholes,everybodys got one.
Wow! Pipedog you are the only one so far that has spoken directly to my point. For some reason you are aware that the worst thing that a society can have is a government approved opinion, and no others.
Interesting- I feel like the shouting is done by the anti-Bush crowd. Rabid shouting. Where do you see/hear the shouting down? The MoveOn and Kos crowd seem to be the shouters. (I don't own a TV so I have to read and listen to the radio.)
Anytime material needs are met, apathy follows.
Exactly: "Anytime material needs are met, apathy follows." I am just afraid of what inevitably follows that.
Wow! Stream, I think we may have found a point of agreement here. And you know what I am trying to say about useless rhetoric being used to control the masses, correct?
I don't think anyone with a brain agrees with this video, but we can discuss the underlying point to which it speaks.
Streamlined, you state part of the truth, it is the same way about being racist against Whites. It's perfectly allowed, but if any thing is said about a black - then it seems that it can be shot down.
I am not quite sure about this video.
Rampant Sexism - No Control of Media - No
And others that I really am too tired to go into. However, some of these people really are spouting off nonsense conspiricies against the Bush administration. He did some stupid things, true, he did some dumb things as well. But contrary to popular belief, he couldn't have done it without Congress. He could not have done it without a lot of things.
That said, everyone knows that the only reason that the Republicans still have power is because the Democrats are more disfunctional than the Republicans are 'facists'.
Agreed. I think many who have really thought out the issues facing America will kinda agree that if either Kerry, or Bush were running the country the result would be the same. What I'm trying to say, (and only pipedog hears) is that we have a system that uses partisan politics and other types of control to get what THEY want and not what WE want.
If I am alone in think this, then there really in no hope to go on. Is it wrong to want to create a better America for myself and my children, without the partisan bickering, and prejudice? Or does my kind of thinking just continue to be shouted down like Weimar Republic in the Reichstat.
P-I agree with much of what you are saying, but everywhere you put the word "power", I would put the word "influence". My government exerts very little power over my daily choices and the media do the same...no real power. But, great influence.
It is not wrong want to create a better America...but, what if you and I disagree about what a better America constitutes? What if I agree with certain directions our government takes, but not others? There is no courage or lack of to take a position that has no consequence to the self...it, I believe, is human nature.
"Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest."
Well put and a good observation about the term "power". I agree influence is more accurate. But with what they have done to my industry, it feels more like power, because I had no choice but to accept it, and the demise of what I love to do.
So true!: "Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the rest."
Stream- Oops forgot to answer the second part of your reply. We as you said about democracy. Democracy is all we have to set what the majority will accept. That leaves the others with a certain amount of tolerance, where the greater good is required. Of course this works both ways depending on the issue being enforced.
It is not a perfect system, but it is the best so far.
I guess you an I are among the few Americans who know this. Every time I bring up the fact that we are a republic thing in a discussion I get the puzzled looks. You know the ones. What you saying looks. Then I have to explain the whole thing. It is best not to bring it up for that very reason.
i never saw the Republic statment. i totaly understand the differance and yes i agree we live and for some exist in a republic verging betwixt that and Imperialism .
One comment from the Scat Squad. We thank Podman and Streamline for doing our work for us...keeping the conservation congenial, lively and actually edifying. Worth a read. But notice Tweedles-Dumb and Dumber from Canada are no where to be found once it gets past calling a spade a f***ing shovel, or a West Virginian a human? Incidentally, on facsism there was a great quote from a Bolshevik apologist in the 1930s, when Hitler was only coming up. Maurice HIndus, The Great Offensive. He called Facsists "middle class socialists", which still defines them by type much better than post-war dictionary definitions. Although some Republicans may be racing to catch up, that term still more closely defines the Al Gore-Clinton-John Kerry branch of American politics. Keep it brisk , Gentlemen. Cheers
Let me get this straight, if I comment, you get pissed, I can understand that. So now you're mad because I DIDN'T comment. Man, you can't win around here.
pod you have a lot of good things to say (of course it's my opinion).
I do think this thing "the internet" which is about transfer of info, not shopping is one tool that can and already does allow the free exchange of ideas and debates among "peasants".
I agree that apathy and advertising are huge problems.
There are lots and lots of issues, problems etc... with our society, government etc...
old and tired perhaps,, but true nonetheless. we (America) exspaned its own borders with force by our military having no provocation other then Manifest Destiny and that is the applicable definition or better yet an example of the (cliche and tired) word imperialism .
many words and phrases used today by you .....and myself can be considerd by one person or another cliche and tired , but that does not negate thier worth.
in truth the phrase cliche and tired is.........well ... cliche and tired. and is not a valid responce to my statement. its more a thing a politition would say. (ouch):o. sorry for the low blow lol. :)
RF-Manifest Destiny...last time it was applied...mid to late 1800's. Even then, wasn't imperialism. Nothing we are doing now is imperialistic. Please give an example.
stream Certainly it was ! it was Monroe's answer to increase Americas chance to gain wealth and size without looking Napoleonic. (Grants memoirs)
and later make way for the massive land grab in soutwest america (old Mexico) . unapproved acquisition of santa fe, through a force of arms by a rogue frontiersmen and several hundred dragoons and held as spoils ( at the time of a war that wasnt or hadnt even started) and all this unbeknownst to congress.
acting on direct orders from the president (Polk) in a domino effect affecting the territories of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and last, but not last California.
(imperialism) by definition- a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy and or military force. i.e China Iran Mexico Alaska Cuba Vietnam Hawaii Nicaragua Puerto Rico Iraq Guam philippines
these country's all fall under the definition in one manner or the other.
RF-You are incorrect in your definition of imperialism. I have looked all over the place for imperialism being defined as "influence" in other countries' affairs. It is the acquisition of other countries, nations, territories, etc...not inflencing them. If you don't take over them or try to take over them, it ain't imperialism.
noun 1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies
Ahhh! I like it better over here. That whole Lord of the files thing in the Mr. Giggles post is very upsetting.
Stream, I agree with R, that we had out imperialistic periods as well. All new nations go through this. It could 'perhaps' be prevented by a pure democracy, but I think a republic is less likely to constrain such actions because the power is concentrated in the representatives.
Streamlined - I'm intrigued on your position that you DON'T believe the US is currently transitting an imperialist phase...? Why do you not see the evidence for this and where have you been looking?
It's good that you don't watch TV (I think I saw this in one of you earlier posts - forgive me if wrong) but this begs the question where you DO find your information from, and to what extent do you believe this information to be factual and unbiased?
I'm afraid I disagree that you feel the US is not acting in an Imperial manner currently (and indeed effectively since the the end of WW2 if we look at the degree to which the US military exerts influence globally in over 120 somthing countries)
As for cultural imperialism - there is NO arguement there surely? US culture whether liked or not has spread globally too, and far more successfully than others have in the same time period. The issue now is probably that a backlash seems to be gaining a degree of momentum what with globalization being recognised primarily as a 'US' driven concept...
Please respond on this Streamy, it's kinda important that you be made aware of what imperialism is, especially if you feel the US is NOT acting this way... Randall's right here...
If there were a glumbert 100 years ago what would we be debating now?
The year 1907: Ideas on Immigrants and being an American.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt 1907
I think I would be complaining about my $1.00/hr (guessing here) salary, and reading how the 'Indian problem' is now finally over. Just think of the changes a 100 years make.
Good to hear from Mako again. Missed you.
USA is not acting imperialist because we are not trying to take over, force assimilation, etc. The American left has for years said that we are acting in an imperialistic manner. In fact, it is a foregone conclusion in leftist circles...but, with no real grounds. (Imperialist is one ofthose words that resonates with people because it conjures images of Darth Vader, Renaissance England, peasants, kings, etc) There were those who opposed our actions in WW2 for that very reason. Yet, we have not taken over any of these countries that we were supposedly "imperializing".
Many may disagree with USA's actions, including myself, but to do so on imperialist grounds is absurd.
Ok Streamlined - You appear to be hiding behind a desire to discuss the definition of Imperialism, rather than acknowledging that what is taking place is much the same thing, however you wish to define it...
Whether you're talking Roman Empire, or come to that, British Empire Imperialism there seem to me to be a couple of paths common to both Empires which the US can justifiably be accused of following, namely:
1. Military outposts in many parts of the world which in some cases are, and in others are not welcomed - currently how may countries with US bases did I say before? 120 plus? Indisputable surely?
2. The placement or attempted placement within other countries of people as heads of state (or whatever nomenclature you wish to give them), whom the US administration believes to be friendly to their own needs - any number of attempted CIA backed coups or other attempts at installing US friendly regimes into states which may not have wanted them - Iran anyone? Cuba? Iraq? To name but the obvious ones...
Now, whether we're talking influence, domination, whatever... The fact remains, Imperialism is the closest word we currently have to what it is that the US Administration seems to be doing. Period.
You mention extending a nation's authority by forceful acquisition of territory - you say the US has not done this...fair enough I'm not gonna bang my head on a wall over it, surely the current Iraq conflict IS a case in point though? Surely the Bay of Pigs was in essence the begining of an attempt right?
What about the concept of hegemony? Why haven't you brought this one up as it may be more in the area you're wishing to sell the US as being...
This effectively suggests dominance of the US over other countries through coersion and ultimately through subordination by these other countries to that coersion. WITH OR WITHOUT the threat of force. And this is crucial... the force issue.
I posit this - Maybe, just maybe, the US is using this force and wheeling it around a little too frequently so that the world is becoming uneasy and starts bandying the Imperialist terminology around... Is that fair? (forget Afghanistan in this context as you certainly have allies there..., but Iraq for example, and a possible focus on Iran next... worrying don't you think?)
That there is social and economic Imperialism is surely not in despute? The difference being people aren't dying. All that will happen in these cases will be a natural maintainance or erosion of that power over time depending upon what the people under it's control want to buy, wear, watch etc...
With the social and economic Imperialism there're no 'kinetics' going on - a lovely term I recently heard used to describe what some of the US forces in Africa Command (yes AFRICA Command - bet you hadn't heard of that one!) are currently doing to the guys who make the US blacklist of soon to be dead people.
You are a patriot Streamlined, of that I have no doubt. But don't become blinded by it. Believe me, if you're on the inside looking out, you are getting a very different message than if you're on the outside looking in.
Chummin - you set remarkably low standards and then, remarkably again, consistently fail to achieve them.
Keep it up fuckwit - no self respecting shark will go near the bullshit you spill into Glumbert waters
Streamlined, You might want to review your earlier "debates" with Mako before wasting too much time on trying to explain imperialism, unless, of course, you have a broader audience in mind.
Mako seems to think he has an automatic copyrighting machine, so he can write his own definition for a term before he ever uses it. We noticed that from him the past, and as you know, that makes honest debate impossible. I would feel much more comfortable if YOU taught HIM the meaning of imperialism, for I am quite sure than 1) any definition he uses is not in accepted use, even in Canada, and if he could come up with one that was 2) then he would have to create a series of "facts" along the order of Bush lied, and he knows what's in other men's hearts, i.e, facts that aren't facts to prove the US guilty of imperialism. Then you'd have to show him out to be a liar as you did Tweedle-Dumb some days ago. Being unrepentent anti-imperialists, even having laid down many of our own lives against it, which, if memory serves, Mako is unwilling to do for any body or any thing. my guess Mako hasn't a clue as to what Imperialism is, other than a word that shows up over and over again in talking points he reads elsewhere. Cheers, Scatman
Here's what I put for RF above...and for the same reasons:
RF-You are incorrect in your definition of imperialism. I have looked all over the place for imperialism being defined as "influence" in other countries' affairs. It is the acquisition of other countries, nations, territories, etc...not inflencing them. If you don't take over them or try to take over them, it ain't imperialism.
noun 1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies
Stream... you're correct in your definition of imperialism... but, just because we aren't doing it the same way the definition says doesn't mean we're not doing it. Now we try to do it a little more subtley, by buying governments or over-throwing them and putting in place heads of state of our choosing. It's to the same end.
Stream- Remind the Wolf that France, not America, still has colonies in Africa, and controls them totally thru the currency and central Bank in Paris. The CFA. Russia still has colonies in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukbekhistan, et al. England still has colonies, last war I checked, in Canada, as well as the Caribbean. To keep peace with the United Nations, itself a bunch of pirates, they just go by another name.
America has interests, she has no colonies. The ones we used to have we tried to give up..but damn, they just didn't want to go. Poll the Philippines today and 35% would still say they'd like to go back to the days of the Commonwealth (pre-1941)...sort of like Canada today. American conquered Germany than gave it back. She conquered Japan, then gave it back. The list goes on. We even conquered Toronto (York) for a whole day or two...then gave it back. What gives here? Remind your friends that just because someone wrote a book about imperialism doesn't mean he knows a thing about it. I haven't read Kennedy, we'll get on it. Question is, would Kennedy be considered an expert witness in a court if the issue simply was" Define IMperialism"?. Would his evidence get into court? Dunno. Cheers, Scatman
Or are you one of our regular retards who picked up an alias?
'Cuz I gotta tell ya, you sound like a complete and utter moron. Only YOU could take this nutty-flag waving crusade, and go completely off into the Twilight Zone with it. You keep harping about how the world "owes" the U.S. something, or about how the U.S. is "superior" in every, way, shape or form, or you even take a simple anecdote I shared on this thread because I felt it relates to the clip, and even managed to turn THAT into something it's not. You absolutely NO clue as to world affairs, and even less about the mechanisms of the U.N. Well, my son, I'm gonna pop your little bubble here, and give you some FACTS, ok?:
1. This puny little "anti-Canadian" bigotry you (and those rabidly LIKE you) repeatedly demonstrate, shows only how insular and close-minded you really are. Canada is a "colony"? We WERE (as YOU were), but you say we still ARE? Fucking dumb. Question: why do folks like YOU insist on sucking Arab dick, whilst continually knocking your neighbour to the north? Got a reason for that? Has Canada set up some kind of slave labour camps in the U.S. I know nothing about? Have we been responsible for flying commercial airliners into any skyscrapers that I'm unaware of? Have we beheaded any Yanks in public executions lately? Do we make second-class creatures out of females? OH NO! WAIT! Those are YOUR SAUDI BUDDIES that do all those things....that's right. YOUR buddies. You make me sick, y'know that?
2. YOU are in the minority, re: the current way the U.S. being managed; whereas I share the camp with over 70% of YOUR population who see it another way. Suck it up, Rambo.
3. America's "got interests, but no colonies". Like, where the fuck do you think the whole notion of "blowback" comes from?? It's because of BUSINESS INTERESTS; you know, that's where the U.S. government a lot of times has knocked off a democratically-elected foreign government, and installed one in its place, that's more friendly to it's BUSINESS INTERESTS. Kinda WORSE that having an out-and-out "colony", ain't it?
3. You can go back through ANY of my posts...ANY of them...and not ONCE did I make any sweeping generalizations about the Amercian people, or the United States as a whole; rather, it has ALWAYS been against their idiotic President and Administration, as well as specific morons like YOU. And that's it. That's all. YOU, and YOUR nutty bunch, however, will not only do THAT, but go ten steps further, and slag whole nations and peoples and organizations. Why? Why izzat? Do you and your type feel THAT threatened? Are you THAT insecure? Why can't you stick to the ISSUES, Hoss? Huh?
4. Again, the stupidity taught by your schools shows through: You didn't "conquer" Toronto; you did the next best thing your that history SHOWS you do quite often: You went on a five-day raping, pillaging, burning and looting spree.....and then left. In retaliation, WE burned down the White House, sending the First Lady (Dolly Madison) fleeing into the night (she barely got, out ahead of our troops, all of whom then then sat down in the dining room, and had a nice supper....then torched the place). BTW, we occupied D.C. a lot longer then Uncle Sam was in Toronto, and would have stayed longer, if not for a hurricane system that moved in). Funny how you left out THAT part, huh? Tough to take, I know. Folks like YOU never like to talk about your nose bleeds. And please, don't even get me started on the genocidal policy against your natives, or even slavery, for that matter. And you "conquered" Japan and Germany?? Ahh, no. You NUKED Japan; you fire-bombed Germany into the stone age. And you did all of the ON YOUR OWN....right? No allied help...no nothing...right? Ohhhhh.....my fuckin' heros. I guess well ALL might as well pack our fuckin' bags, and let you have the planet to yourselves, according to YOU, huh? Listen, do NOT go to Europe with that attitude...you'll get whacked for sure.
(Apologies to my regular Yank friends/readers on Glumbert; I think if you look past my disgust, you'll see why I am responding the way I'm responding to this fuckhead.)
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