"I saw a leg" LMFAO!!!! Sorry, just to funny! This and what our shit for brains president said about how he wished he could be on the front line in Iraq is just the fucking bomb!!
America, you are becoming more obscene everyday. Were the little darlings taken to a suicide bombing mop-up ? That would have been great for their show-and-tell.
I do understand that there are things about America that people from other places do not agree with or understand. But, being an American, my entire life, I am still proud to be here. I would only wish that other nations could comprehend that most Americans are good people, with high hopes of world peace, don't want other nations to hate us, only want the best for everyone. The ones in power are the ones who dictate what will happen, and when, and to whom. Most of us don't have any choice but to go along with it, and witness it the same as the outsiders. I am not politically intelligent, as anyone could ascertain from reading my post these many months. But one thing I CAN say, with certainty, is that the politicians of this country are not wholeheartedly supported in their decisions all the time by the general population of this great country. Our middle class America is not represented or taken into consideration. ALL politicians are self-motivated, for their own reasons, for their own quest for power, and anything they say otherwise is a crock of shit. They DO NOT care about the majority of people here. They are concerned only with their own adgenda. Nothing could convince me otherwise.
Agreed, most worry about keeping there job than worry about doing there job.
I was a selectman in my small town for many years, getting other select board members to vote on items was next to impossible, they didn't want to get voted out. I say do the job, don't worry about who/how people vote, they wanted you in the first place, so own the vote and move on.
FTB you know I respect you so this is not a personal jibe.
The middle class you allude to, and to whom I bet most posting here would probably say we belong is PRECISELY the constituency who ARE taken into account when elections come about.
We make up the numbers.
The middle classes are EXACTLY why the current crop of white house contenders are so stepford wifey in their approach to politics. The middle classes are what make things tick because we tend not to rock the boat.
Politicians know this and play to it. It is why they are so safe in their approach with regard to the current elections
The middle classes are the largest mass most easily led by most current governments. Keep people adequately wealthy, connected to cable TV and fed with enough food to feel content. Easy then to keep feeding stuff we don't question too much.
Problems exist because what defines the middle class is actually a VERY broad category - huge income variances exist between those who say they are middle class. People earning say $300k a year would probably say they're middle class. So would those earning $70k a year.
This means in reality never the twain would meet given their difference in income levels. Yet these variant income levels are all seen as middle class.
Bottom line is no one really wants to say they are upper class or aristocracy. Those who actually are would never say it. They just are. I guess you know you have reached the upper classes or aristocracy when asking the price of something becomes crass. If you have to ask you can%u2019t afford it. Know what I mean?
The politician that best tells the middle classes what we want or need to hear tends to be the one finally elected. That resulting government then (certainlyin the US at present) goes its own merry way until we all wake up and say WTF?
With all due respect the US admin have been fucking everyone over on the war in Iraq for a long time. Now the economic fallout from this plus the screwed up fed position means things are coming home to roost and the middle classes are having their wallets hurt more overtly.
When the middle class wallet gets hurt things change quicker. Middle classes tend to be what elect and depose. It just takes a bigger firecracker up their asses to do something.
If you see yourself as middle class then you ARE VITAL TO GOVERNMENTS.
Use that to galvanize some form of positive action.
If you can be bothered that is.
Personally I%u2019m ordering a McDs now. They deliver within 15 mins here. Brilliant!
PS You are right of course - the politicos are a bunch of twats who won't care either way once elected.
PPS This means it is vitally important to keep the second amendment firm and true - keep the mother fuckers guessing about the next hit
No sweat Mako! I wouldn't take it as a personal jibe. I was just thinkin me thinks.
Your comments are well thought out, and appreciated for what they are. A different view point. Very informative.
As always.
Free
My daugther Kate went to work with me once, she had to change my pants three times, feed me lunch and drove me home. She said she had a good time, but didn't understand what it was I did.
Not usually a big fan of "ONN", but this piece was actually a sharp little satirical jab.
Five years on, almost 4,000 U.S. casualties and a million dead Iraqis so far, and all costing roughly $12 billion a month (and counting).
BUT.....all the Bushies say universal health care is BAD.....the surge is WORKING......warrantless wire-tapping is SWELL.....record numbers of mortgage foreclosures are NOT THAT BAD.....the sinking greenback is going through a ROUGH PATCH......Barack Obama is an extremist Muslim and he's EVIL ('cuz he don't wear a flag lapel pin)......
War sucks. That's their message, couched in quite creative caricature Americanism...to say nothing about the sardonic symbolism of the "take your daughter to work" programs so commonly practiced here in the USA.
I liked its creativity...hated its reality....like, making a movie about a tragedy while the tragedy is still in process.
Should we arm ourselves and attack Washington? Shall we march on the Pentagon? Shall we dynamite our ships in harbor?
Or shall we depend on the leadership we have, and desprately hope things will not get worse?
Okeydokey......open to other options.....what do we do, all you who think the American people are warlike...what do we do......?
We have enormous funding of foreign needs....and have had for most all my adult life. Yet, we are condemned for not doing as much as some wanted. We are the world teat on which all should be able to suck, without restraint, and yet have only rebuke and disdain as our reward.
Someone else, PLEASE, take over.
I'm tired, and I want my country to be able to watch others destroy themselves without looking our way for salvation.
I think I already answered you on these points awhile back, Mr. Chaz.
If any entity (like previous U.S. Administrations) want to assume the role of "World Cop", hey, I'm really okay with that. Honestly. BUT.....if they DO take on this responsibility.....then it is NOT the same as being given a blank cheque, and be allowed to whatever the christ they feel like, y'know? At some point, you MUST have a measure of a nifty little thing called "accountability", or "sensibility", or a "check-and-balance" system come into play.
Now....if whatever U.S. Administration CANNOT carry out that duty, then I think you're absolutely correct: it's time to hand in the goddamn gun and badge. On the other hand, if the U.S. government elects to continue to wear/carry these symbols of justice and authority, then they take it ALL on....the credit as well as the criticism. You don't get to cherry-pick.....or complain about it. You own it all.
ALL.
With great power, comes great responsibility.
If I am mistaken, or being unreasonable in my rationale about this, then by all means....please advise accordingly. And speaking for myself, personally, I do not (nor have I ever viewed, all Americans as "warlike" (current Dummy As President notwithstanding).
You're a very intelligent person, or so I believe.
I therefore find it odd to see you playing into these generalized descriptives.
I just thought of the perfect analogy to illustrate my point:
Ever see the classic Clint Eastwood movie "Hang'em High"? Yeah? No?
Well, there's a great scene in it, where Eastwood (who plays Marshal Cooper) gets really pissed off with the presiding judge, because apparently the good Marshal either does not like or otherwise agree with, the way/manner in which the judge dispenses "justice"; as a matter of fact, the Marshal gets real pissed at him, and tosses his badge onto the judges desk in disgust. To make a long story short, the judge basically tells Cooper that since he's the only magistrate in the entire Oklahoma Territories, he has NO CHOICE but to administer "justice" as he sees fit, or until such time as more courts and judges can be created. So, if the Marshal don't fucking like it, then fine; get lost. Leave. And to also shut his trap, and leave "justice" to HIM and the rest of his Deputy Marshals. Or, pick up that badge and carry on, and help make a better society for us all.
Canuck...the last thing I wanted was to wake you to discourse, since I know you to be well prepared, and wonderfully glib. You are the master at these encounters...so I am at risk of being pitarded on your sharp wit.
But you do have an exceptional ego.
You speak as a spectator. Someone not directly involved, who believes he knows how things should go...especially after the fact.
And someone who would not be affected either way.
I am an American...and we are being portrayed here, and in other media, in a way that is not only misrepresentative of our views, but also demeaning of our values.
The USA is the largest, most consistent giver of foreign aid....enormous amounts sent to needy peoples. You did not acknowledge that.
Are we "cherry picking"? As if we are involved in the most self-enhancing projects? Are you serious?
I want out of Iraq....but that's not going to happen overnight. I want out of the whole eastern Mediterranian scene...but how the hell does that happen when all the freeking world looks to the US for support? ? ?
Will there ever....EVER...be peace in that area? Freekin' tribal wars will NEVER end...it's not a conflict between countries, it's war between tribes that has gone on for generation after gereration.
We won't make a difference. But, the world will expect us to.
Damn.
Take your Clint Eastwood simile and park it. You have no idea, my friend.
But...........you ARE glib. And I like reading your posts.
Take my "Clint Eastwood smile and park it"?? I have "no idea"? Is this a case of being irate at something I said? I am "glib"? I have an "ego"?
Okay..c'mon now...let's get serious here, Amigo, ok?
From day ONE, I have NEVER been "glib" about matters pertaining to either death, war or destruction in general, and even less remotely so about American casualties in this "war". Politics/politicians? Sure. To a point. Towards certain cretins on these threads who have nothing better to do, than spew useless shit and hatred? Usually.
As far as having "no idea"? Well, I can tell you in all honesty, that having spent my life living a mere 90 miles from the border of my southern neighbour, enjoying the same foods, the same pop culture, buying the same goods/services, playing the same sports, trying my very best to keep up with current affairs across that border BUT short of actually LIVING AS/WORKING AS/JUST BEING an American....I like to think I at least have SOME idea. Would that be fair of me to say?
"You speak as a spectator. Someone not directly involved"
Whoa. Back up a sec.
Every day up here, I'm hearing about our kids getting blasted apart by explosives in or around Kandahar. Why is that? Is it because WE were attacked seven years ago? No. It's because our good friends and allies to south were. "Spectator"?? No, Sir. That puts me/us ON THE PLAYING FIELD. Iraq is another story. Took a pass on that one. McCain, Hillary and Barack can hash that one out. But you were correct on a point I was remiss in mentioning: yes, the U.S. was at one point in its glory. At the end of World War II. It almost single-handedly poured its money and resources and young men into defeating a truly evil regime, and rebuilt Europe vis-a-vis the Marshall Plan. Not a small feat, and deserving of every praise for it. The altruistic acts she has made SINCE then (and there have been some) are unfortuntely eclipsed by large/medium scale operations that have not only failed, but only served to provide a self-serving, reckless image to the world (Vietnam, El Salvador, Iran, Grenada, Chile, Cuba, Nicaragua, Phillipines, Panama). But let's leave the concept of "war" aside for a moment (I won't even even get into that "after the fact" remark, even though I was opposed MOST VOCALLY to this action BEFORE it started), lets' talk economics. Whoever the person is sitting in the White House, it don't matter: whatever comes out of their mouths in terms of fiscal policy....WILL have a DIRECT effect on us. Comes with living next door to an economic juggernaut; only a fool would ignore this fact. This comment about not being "affected either way"....I dunno where you get that from. My only suggestion to you is to try to avoid being too insular in your thinking. Seriously. Because of who and what the U.S. is, she cannot make a SINGLE MOVE, be it a snort, fart or twitch....without there being some kind of ripple effect spreading outwards. Can you grasp this? So, that being the case...yeah....I think I DO have a serious, vested interest in what goes on down there....don't you? BUT....I do NOT believe in simply slagging shit about, without at least trying to get into a decent discourse about it.
"Ego"????
Negative on that.
The only folks who are subjected to my so-called "ego", are the few no-minds around here, who have nothing at their disposal to throw at me, except raw crap. But an "ego" to decent, intelligent folks like yourself? Mako? Bill? Randal? Free? Riza? Gym? Pods? Col. Vanker? Skids?
No, Sir. I respectfully disagree with you on that one.
However (and you can take this for whatever it's worth), I DO sincerely respect your views and arguments, even if I may or may not agree with what you say.
Chaz, you have the typical US American problem: You think your country is the center of the world. Now, surprise: It is not!
Foreign aids are paid by all G8 countries and then some. Germany is spending 5.1B Euro (7.9B$) this year and we do not count the costs to bomb other nations as foreign aid. The USA is spending some 10B$ or real aid (not including bombs etc.), a country about 3.5 times the population of Germany.
Called on everywhere: Not quite, I don't remember you being called to Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, just to name a few. The wars the USA usually fights are not about helping other nations, they are about control.
Knowing everything after the fact: Saying that nobody warned you not to go at war with Iraq is just a lie. The current situation was predicted by most of the countries which did not join into the coalition fo the stupid and it was predicted before the first shot was fired.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the USA or their people, what I do hate is the fact that even most of your well educated people have such a narrow perspective. The USA are a great country if you discount the government and the ignorance.
BTW: The USA owes the UN more than 1B$, though there are geniusses who work out constructions to prove that the payments are not due.
Canuck...as always....well informed, well phrased.
Hard not to like you.
And I do. But...................
Enough...there is little I can say to illustrate how it is to be an American on the world scene these days. Always defensive, never admired. GDm it !
Been at this a long time....just absolutely hate the current world view of us.
For a lifetime I have dreamt about France...real France, not Paris.
In the past number of years my wife and I have been able to experience the most wonderful times in that extraordinary country...three weeks in 2001, four in 2002, one in Paris in 2003...then skipping a year, five weeks in 2005.
People here do not appreciate the lifestyle of the average French family...most here think we live the finest level of life.
At all times and in all situations, our French hosts were remarkably hospitable...no "ugly American" residue in our experiences.
I never thought I would ever say such a thing, but I could easily live out my remaining years happily in Provence...or perhaps, Bourgogne. Dordogne, even. Real France (not the same as the north...Brittany, Loire valley, Picardy, and the rest of the heavily visited English borderlands).
Why do I say this here?
There is no sense there that they must perform on the world scene, and undergo world censure. Not that their position is not remarked, but that it has the excuse of being subordinate to that all-giving, all-judging, all-demanding entity across the pond. They are relaxed, covered by the immense military presence of the USA...socialized and relaxed...arguably the most comfortable country in the world today.
I am tired of the unremitting spotlight...unremitting pressure...unremitting criticism....unremitting negativity...of my people, my country, my home.
And....this is the reason I have not been posting....and why I regret posting today.
On a lighter point....I can infer what "slag" means, but don't really know...Clint is my testosteronal hero....but, like Superman, had his imperfections. I ID with the bad parts more than the impervious.
"With great power....comes great responsibility."
Right. Live a few miles south and actually BE an American. Then talk to the average citizen about "responsibility"....how about "frustration", a more prevalent sense hereabouts.
Like....I like Canada, and I like Mexico....but would live in neither place.
Truth be known, as much as I love France, I would live here at all costs.
Ah well......
Shit....can't even blame wine for this rampant discourse.
Well....now I'll have one more, then maybe I will blame it.
French, of course.
Sorry for my lapsing into crudity a bit. Here comes a lovely Cabernet....
I think you are correct to lament the loss of something we once had. We are now hated on a global level, and hated by our old friends as well. Even Australia and New Zealand hates us now!
Canuck does not understand this loss because his country is still held in high regard throughout the world. Also, those who have never lived in a superpower nation have no understanding of the conflict, and heartache that such a status imparts to it's people. It is a highly conflicted state of morals, patriotism, and all the rest.
We American citizens worked long and hard on America, and the entire country has been brought down by a wealthy simpleton, and his greedy friends. That is how it is, and is going to be, as FTB stated this once with eloquence on some past thread. Many of the citizens of this country did not want this to happen or vote for the idiots that have brought this nation to this new level in the world.
We can only hope that the forces and individuals that have bankrupted our nation over these many years, will bring some good in the long run. That is unknown at this point in history. It will take hundreds of years to repair this nations status, and neither you or I will live long enough to see that happen.
Our only option is to grieve the loss, because it was taken from us by some punk with a gun, and the laws and guidance that this nations founding fathers designed for us, did not protect us as we expected. On this point many of us grieve with you.
Canuck - Your viewpoint is naturally skewed by living near the giant, and not being the giant. So it is understandable that you missed the point that Chaz was making. Your anger is also understandable, but to understand this point you will need to exorcise some empathy.
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